Copper deficiency?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:08 am

I'm wondering if my hens are showing signs of copper deficiency. I have been getting very wrinkled eggs from my Cornish, and some of the other eggs are feeling a bit sandpapery. I don't have any blue egg breeds, but there's been some conjecture on another forum that those breeds have adapted to and require more copper than commercial breeds- and I wonder if this is true for some heritage breeds too.
Other signs are aortic rupture (my Cornish cockerel last year?????) and eggs that die upon pipping.
I'm very suspicious of manufactured feed, basically most are just an equivalent of Ritz crackers with a vitamin pill. If the manufacturer doesn't get the vitamin premix right, or if the feed is stale, all sorts of bad things will happen. Free range can add issues too, we are definitely mineral deficient in our soil here.
I thought I would just add some vitamins to the water- but the vitamins I have do not have any minerals in them. :-/
Does anyone know where you can get a complete vitamin / mineral mix for chickens? I'm a bit nervous of these, it's easy to screw up and overdose. Where can I get acidified copper? I think I actually have some copper sulfate, but it's not acidified. I don't have citric acid, what else could I use? Can I use vinegar instead?
That will be my first experiment, but I wonder, if copper is lacking, what else might be.In the mean time I have cut back on scratch and piled on the sesame seeds.
Geez, you wonder if some of those leg problems and flip over problems could be solved by adding extra copper to free ranged meat birds.
Any thoughts?

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:11 am

We know I'm not an expert here, but I thought wrinkled eggs was a sign of a problem in the shell making factory of the hen, or an infection. I think it also happens in older hens.

Why are you leaning towards copper? Just curious.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:32 am

I don't see signs of disease, and this wrinkling has not been a constant problem. Wrinkled/sandpapery eggs are a symptom of copper deficiency. My hens are only a year old.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat May 28, 2016 9:50 am

Ordered this:
Seems to have good reviews.

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:13 pm

Worth a try, I'd say, if it's not just one hen with wrinkled/sandpapery eggshells.
I have one hen that has always laid sandpapery eggshells, so I figure that's just her quirky egg production system.

windwalkingwolf · Post by **windwalkingwolf** » Sun May 29, 2016 12:33 am

Copper sulphate is already slightly acidic, what is 'acidified copper sulphate', and why would it be better as than the regular stuff as a supplement? I use copper sulphate in stock tanks and swimming pool...keeps algae down and (supposedly) keeps parasites like giardia down, and is a source of copper.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:13 am

It's just copper sulfate with citric acid. I suppose adding acid releases more copper. I suppose I could use vinegar and copper sulfate.

Post by **WLLady** » Sun May 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Lemon juice or lime juice would be better than vinegar....do your birds free range robbie? If so i would be surprised if its a copper deficiency. It could be a sodium vs calcium inbalance though. Sodium is extremely limited in the environment....
My first thought with wrinkled eggs is ILT honestly...followed by salmonella-ILT they are def sick but salmonella they might not show any problems and a quick course of tetracycline would clear it up. Some girls also lay wrinkled eggs most commonly at the pointed end because the push too hard and squeeze the egg-but if its all your birds that wont be it. You could get a trace mineral (brown) horse block and grind it and feed like oyster shell....see if it helps....?? I honestly worry more about vir b and selenium in commercial feed than anything else....

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:06 pm

Yes they free range, but they also get layer pellets and the windy fields mash free choice, and oystershell. We're in a high pH soil area, plenty of calcium but magnesium deficient. I have no idea of the trace mineral content of our soil, it's pretty poor stuff, sandy and low in nutrients.
I seem to be having sandpapery eggs lately, and those wrinkled ones. It's a cornish that lays the wrinkled eggs, might be genetic, but it seems worse lately. Nobody seems sick.
I cut back on scratch and today the eggs seem a bit better...... that's the one thing I was starting to pile on ( they like it).
Isn't the horse block too salty for chickens? I guess I could toss them some crackers or something like that? Do chickens eat potato chips?
What's the issue with selenium/ vit (?) b in the feed? I usually give my chickens meat, but lately not so much because there are so many bugs.

Post by **WLLady** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:47 pm

I have had a few batches of chicks that needed vit b supplemented on commercial feed-gait issues and crooked neck mostly in chicks...some supplemented b and picked right back up. The feed is supposed to be complete but i think it runs just on the bare minimum for vit b. Selenium is beneficial to embryo health and male fertility. Since i am breeding my birds i make sure the feed has selenium...i have not ever not used it-so i couldnt tell you if it makes a difference but most commercial feeds have it. Selenium deficient parents appear ok but embryos die during incubation....

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Question Copper deficiency?