GOAT THREAD, ONGOING

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As per Ferrier1987: You are supposed to post pictures when you post about your baby goats. Its a rule here. I just made it up as a rule, but its now part of the forum rules I have decided.
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Farrier1987
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Post by Farrier1987 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:42 am

2 Feb, 2016. Happy Chinese New Year everyone. I cant remember for sure, but I think this is the year of the Kangaroo.

Thank you everyone for allowing and encouraging me to write my goat introduction stuff. This thread I intend to be the ongoing goat discussion. Pass on some info, get input from others and visit and stuff. So let’s get it kicked off.

This morning, I am going to expound a little on feeding. I want good healthy goats, so good feed. Healthy doesn’t mean rolling fat, and doesn’t mean half starved. So you try to hit the middle.

I don’t feed mash or pellets or prepared food to my animals or chickens. Nothing against scratch or rolled, and I know they get a little more food value out of it as it passes by, but they do lose some food, and if crushed, it rots. If whole grain, a good chance it will sprout somewhere and they will find it, or it will grow. No laying mash or pelletized blended with antibiotics and protein enhancements. That’s just my choice, not saying others shouldn’t. But for me with 25 hens and two goats and the minihorse, no need, the way I see it.

My two pregnant does, I feed a soup can of grain once a day individually on the milking bench, some mineral sprinkled on. Keeps them in the habit of where to go. And Butterfly, who is a first timer, will know all about the milking stand, eating there, being handled there, everything but getting milked. Should make the actual milking happen a lot easier when the time comes.

So in the morning, the horse gets turned out to graze and the goats get a flake of second cut alfalfa. High grade nourishment for growing babies. Mineral block available always. By the evening, the horse is back in and I put out some good grass hay for them for overnight noshing. And at 830 at night or so, they each get a hand fed alfalfa cube, their form of candy. (OK, I said no processed food, but a treat, well maybe.) Most days, the goats either get a walk with me in the bush so they can browse, or I cut them a few cedar branches to nibble on. Remember, goats are naturally a browser like deer, not a grazer like sheep or cow or horse.

Goats don’t like to eat off the ground, so I have two hay feeders. One is a home made hay net. 2 ft x 3 ft picture frame sort of thing made out of 2x4 with chain link across it, hinged to the wall of their shelter, about 2 ft above ground level. I put the hay in this so they can pull bits out of it. I like this better than the ground or a manger, as not near so much ends up wasted.

The second place is a little feeder I made. Kind of like a small doghouse. Four sides of plywood about 2 ½ ft high, slanted roof/lid made out of corrugated iron, on hinges so I can lift it up and put hay in it then drop the lid back down. (If you decide to build something like this, use heavy plywood and lots of screws and 2x4 framed, because the goats will jump on and off this twenty times a day, it needs to be skookum.) Holes in three sides, about the size and shape of a toilet seat inside measurement. Only one can get its head in that port. This arrangement makes it hard for them to run each other off the food. If they want to eat, they have to put their head in and cant push the other one. (If small number of animals, one more port than you have goats is great.) There is another similar opening instead of the oval, a keyhole. Same purpose, but the neck is confined after they reach in and lower the head to eat. I don’t like this one, and it sort of confines them and they can be blindsided by a more aggressive doe.

So this morning, I go out to do chores. Let the horse out. Feed the grain. Feed the hen and chicks out of my hand (I love that part.) Let the chickens out. Go to give the goats their flake of alfalfa. And I look around, and there is hay on the ground under the wall feeder, getting tromped in. Similarly alfalfa on the ground. Not just from today, it has built up over some time. I guess I just hadn’t noticed.

Old stockman I knew said that if they cleaned up everything and the ground was bare dirt, you weren’t feeding them enough, and they would be going downhill. If they were pulling it out bunches and dropping excess amounts on the ground and walking on it, you were feeding too much. So I guess I have been feeding too much. Well, the girls are with child. But I think I will start to cut back just a pinch. I don’t want over fat animals but I do want them well nourished.

I guess its sort of like paying taxes. You want to do all that you have to so as not to be in trouble, but no more than is necessary.

Thoughts, input, comments from others? Goatlady? Others? Lets get this going.
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Farrier1987. South of Chatham on Lake Erie. Chickens, goats, horse, garden, dog, cat. Worked all over the world. Know a little bit about a lot of things. No incubator, broody hens.

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GOAT THREAD, ONGOING

Post by baronrenfrew » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:50 pm

No goat experience here...

Happy New Year... Year of the kangaroo?? Ummm I never heard of a kangaroo in China. If they did it'd be on a menu... The Chinese eat everything...Year of the Monkey I'm told.

Actually kangaroo is good meat (haven't tried it yet). I think the market is a million tons per year. CBC Quirks and Quarks (science radio show) reported that they are trying to hybrid a sheep and kangaroo (no joke). The kangaroo is the only grass eating mammal that doesn't create methane gas due to an extra stomach and bacteria so 100% efficient feed conversion. Actually that's not true... there is an animal... pig like.. Seen on an Indonesian island (but never caught or seen in a market) that poops pure carbon and was caught on film. I guess its the equivalent of a bigfoot or unicorn and is just a myth that scientists are chasing. (Yes I tell jokes and tall tales but sometimes.. And this is one time... The truth is better than fiction)

Oops :hijacked:
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Diligently follow the path of two swords as one. Percieve that which the eye cannot see. Seek the truth in all things. Do not engage in useless activity.

The Book of Five Rings, Miyamoto Musashi, Japan's greatest swordsmen

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Farrier1987
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Post by Farrier1987 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:49 am

OK, so I have a question for someone more experienced than me with goats.

I would also like to ask for opinions of cross breeding. I do want to milk, and I do want pets. But I only have an acre. Is there any advantage to me breeding a Boer billy for my well bred dairy does? Would I get more for the kids by the fall? Or am I better with a dairy billy keeping good milking lines, selling off the little bucklings young and cheap. Keeping doelings to sell at breeding age in the fall? I know I am a hobbyist, and it makes no real material difference, but I am also interested in the knowing business aspect, small scale as it might be. Would a cross bred Boer dairy doe make a good home milk goat?

Opinions? Thanks.
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Farrier1987. South of Chatham on Lake Erie. Chickens, goats, horse, garden, dog, cat. Worked all over the world. Know a little bit about a lot of things. No incubator, broody hens.

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Post by The Goatlady » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:30 am

Boer is beef goat...less milk ..more fat..smaller teats
Newborns are slower with the sucking reflex and tend to sleep after birthing or lie down...if ya don't get to the babies soon enough and depending on weather ...there reserved sugars start to crash...find the boers more finicky...not
as tough as a dairy breed....Boers get fat quick and always wanting food...they will yell at ya for more...find the boers have more colickly/digestive issues ......at the stockyards for meat goats....might be a difference of .25 cents on the pound between well-fed dairy or boer billies at the 60-70 lb weights currently. ...stick to breeding dairy with dairy and beef boers to beef breeds...l find cross breeding dairy and beef ..ya get really nice F1 hybrids ..but they don't reproduce the good qualities in the next generation...just my 2 cents....The Goatlady
Oh ya..l haven't seen a hay feeder that goats can't destroy or make waste..there is a hay feeder upright heavy cord netting for $3,500.00..that goats are not suppose to waste hay....there is a grain feeder called 3 in 1 feeders..if your willing to pay over $2,000.00 for a grain feeder.... but we all know how tough it is to make next week's grocery money with goats...ya have to really love your goats...because the truth is there is no money to be made by them...speaking from 38 years of raising goats!!!!! I know the traceability ear/tail tags is around the corner for goats.. R.F.I.D. tags are also not cheap and they want to start the check-off fee per goats too.....($2.00 per head to the Goat Board) the stockyards will deduct this from your cheque. ..milk production goat guys are doing a voluntary check-out fee now...per liter of milk produced....just keeps getting tougher for the small family farmed operations....beware of the new rules being in forced by C.F.I.A....there is 20 pages of rules how to transport/load ...square (25 lbs) footage of weight to transport your goat...yup the C.F.I.A. we're at the stockyards..looking in everyone's trailers and pic-up trucks .... $1,600.00 fine....if there wasn't enough bedding covering the floor of your trailer or pic-up ....not enough enclosed or covered tarping. ..the goats must be able to turn around in trailer
..must be fed before leaving home......unloading not more than 15" step up or down in trailer.....on and on...C.F.I.A. are the federal inspectors outside the stockyards....yet inside where the goats are crammed into pens with wet slippery urine soaked bedding is the jurstication of provincial. ..yes humane society... because the stockyards buildings is privately owned....makes no sense to make your best efforts to transport your babies and inside the buildings are different rules again.....makes me want to give it all up!!!!!!
New rules coming are ..when livestock is moved...this must be recorded and immediately sent in..for traceability. ..paper work...more paperwork! Oh ya....what about traceability on chickens...wing R.F.I.D'S?
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Farrier1987
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Post by Farrier1987 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:34 am

Spring is soon upon us. Broody hens, and the people that bought the young billy goat from me last summer phoned a couple days ago. (See previous forum entry, “goat buying.”)

They had bought a second doe about mid-August. Wonderful Alpine girl, in milk at the time, about 4 yrs. old. They milked till she dried up in November. Kept her separate from the young billy, watching for signs of interest from either one. They planned on breeding her this past fall, but she never seemed to come into full blown heat. And because they had the young billy and want to keep him as a herd sire, they were going to maybe breed from outside, so the offspring would not be related to him.

And their Saanen doe, sold to them as a bred two year old, second time kidder, that turned out to not be pregnant and was really five years old, they had had the vet out and ultrasounded her and she is due in March some time.

So, the phone rings, and it’s them. The Alpine, who they are not 100% sure of when or if she was bred, but probably in November so she might have kids in April is acting funny. Put her in last night everything just normal. But overnight, her bag has filled, and she is wanting to be alone, and laying down a lot. Did I think she might be getting ready to birth a young’un? Well, yes, that was my guess. I as the expert, because I have had goats for a few years, am being consulted. (I’m not an expert, just a rank amateur.) I said I would come over in a while and give my opinion.

Hour later, the phone again. I was still welcome to come over, but my expert opinion wasn’t really required any more, they had a nice little Alpine doeling. Mother and baby doing just fine. They were thrilled, and I was thrilled for them.

A single for a milkgoat is great, and a doeling at that. The mom is fresh, and you can take more milk sooner. You don’t have to deal with finding a home or a cooking pot for a young buck. (I hate that part, but necessary.) An addition to your little herd, you know her parents, when she was born, that she got colostrum, nourished and fed and raised the way you want, quiet and friendly. Just a whole bunch of really good stuff.

So in the afternoon, we took over a baby present. A dozen eggs. Thought about a cigar for the proud daddy (the young billy they had got from me) but they don’t approve of tobacco that house, so we desisted.

Counting back on my fingers five months, she had to have been bred about Labour Day. Within about a week of her arrival, the deed had been consummated. No wonder she wasn’t coming in heat. Now young Billy had to be all of 4 months old and potently sexually active. And if the ultrasound and the vet is right, the Saanen was bred when Billy was about 5 months. And neither act was witnessed. Young Bill was kept separate, except a couple times he somehow got out. Out of his pen and in with the girls. A couple times, but nothing happened as far as was observed. And this with pretty darn good fencing.

Now in the spring, they will have a goat herd. If the next one has twins, which is kind of normal, and statistics would predict a boy and a girl, they will have the makings of a nice little home dairy goat herd. That’s just great, wonderful.

But the drawback? Out of the six they will probably have, four are related. This one just born, will be breedable this fall, and the dominant male in their herd is her daddy. Conundrum time.

During the baby viewing visit, they expressed a great thought. Did I think there would be someone around that might like to trade billy goats? Someone like them, that doesn’t want to inbreed, might want new blood, good milking lines etc.? I had quietly thought to myself that this would be a good option for them, and they thought of it without me suggesting it and acting like mister know it all.

So anybody out there looking for a proven Alpine breeding billy, will be a year in April, good milk lines, raised friendly and gentle, very pretty? Got something similar to trade? I know someone who wants to talk to you.

Spring is nearly here, I know it. Broody hens and baby goats in the country.
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Farrier1987. South of Chatham on Lake Erie. Chickens, goats, horse, garden, dog, cat. Worked all over the world. Know a little bit about a lot of things. No incubator, broody hens.

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