Day 14

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Kbr42
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Re: Day 14

Post by Kbr42 » Wed May 08, 2019 9:12 pm

Jaye wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:40 pm
Thanks, @Ontario Chick and @Happy . I should mention that in my earlier post should have said pipped and started zipping, but stalled. Does that make a difference in how to proceed?
I would sleep on it. As long as the humidity it holding at 65 the half unzipped chick should be fine.....if the half unzipped chick is under a fan in the incubator you may in the morning have to help. In my last hatch I had 2 that unzipped and got shrink wrapped cause it was too close the fan and it dried the membran out and the chick was stuck. But that's many hours away. The chick just maybe tired. You'll know if you have to help. I did with mine,I was up at 5am boiling water...Lol
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Happy
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Re: Day 14

Post by Happy » Wed May 08, 2019 9:38 pm

Are you sure it just pipped this morning? How far did it zip before stopping? I've had to help a few that got stuck and it's always tense for me. You don't want to help too soon. If the chick is peeping a lot or sounds to be in distress then I check out the situation closer. But honestly once you open the incubator you're kind of committing yourself to help either now or later when it's ready. And possibly affecting other eggs. If you believe the egg just pipped this morning I really would leave it as OC and KBR suggested until morning. Just make sure humidity is good.
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Jaye
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Re: Day 14

Post by Jaye » Wed May 08, 2019 9:57 pm

I'm pretty sure it started pipping this morning. It made some progress and then stalled. This afternoon I was getting movement when I talked to it, but now there's nothing, and #5 has moved away from it.
Here's what it's looked like most of the afternoon and even now.
IMG_20190508_180837.jpg
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RIP Scooby, AKA Awesome Dog. Too well loved to ever be forgotten. "Sometime in June", 2005 - January 24, 2017.
"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened" - Anatole France

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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Day 14

Post by windwalkingwolf » Thu May 09, 2019 12:34 am

That's a minor malposition I think Jaye...his unzipped spot is going down the egg diagonally and his face is pointed straight at the hole. He's got himself wedged down awkwardly. It's normal for these guys to take a little longer, as they must rest for hours between their huge efforts. Weak chicks sometimes don't survive the exertion, and otherwise healthy chicks will sometimes have a bit of wry neck or curly toe paralysis, just from being in an awkward position and fighting to get out. If he's still alive in the morning and hasn't progressed, I would personally finish cracking his "zipper" and see if he can do the rest. But if he manages to turn or shove his head down so that you can't see his beak, he needs help immediately! I've had malpositions suddenly stick their head between their legs, either to relieve discomfort or to try and get leverage for a good shove against the shell, but the result is the same. If they can't get their head back up, they're dead in 30 seconds. Yes, it's normal for a hatch to sometimes be drawn out over several days, especially if eggs are a mix of bantam and standard, or if eggs aren't ever touching each other during incubation (they communicate chemically to speed or retard development). Remember, 21 days is an average, not a hard and fast rule, and no two chicks hatch the same. Some are out within two hours after pipping and some can take 24 hours or more, and still be perfectly normal.
It can be very nerve wracking!! Occasional bouts of distress cheeps are normal. Continuous and strident ones are not, especially if they get progressively weaker.
Chicks NEED the exertion of turning and hatching, even a minorly difficult hatch. Without that effort on their part, blood vessels in the membrane will not close off/shrink, and helping can cause a catastrophic loss of blood. If you have to help a stuck chick while the vessels are still full (not recommended but it happens on occasion and I'm too much of a meddler to just let them die) uncap the shell, peel (not tear!) the membrane back over the chick, pull his head up if it's jammed down between his legs, and then manually turn the chick counterclockwise inside the egg at LEAST 180 degrees without pulling him away out of the egg. 360 degrees if there's more blood than a drop or two. This twists the vessels enough to trigger them to clamp down. Put him back in the heat and let him get his strength back, and 99% of the time he will finish hatching himself and in short order you will have no clue which one needed help.

P.s.
If an egg is "goopy" when a chick pips the shell, a bit of torn membrane can stick to chick down as he rests between efforts, drying out and halting his efforts to move and turn. This isn't shrinkwrapping, just the opposite-- it's too much water in the egg before hatch. A chick ready to hatch is damp but not wet, slimy, goopy or sticky. Shrinkwrapping is a lot rarer in our climate than gluing. It's an ugly, sad thing and I hope you never experience it. The membrane very literally shrinks down and very quickly compresses the chick into a tiny space until it suffocates. Dried stuck goop and membrane can be peeled off (some down will come off too) or soaked off and the chick is fine. Shrinkwrapping is just dry, leathery shrunken membrane and dead squished chick. Should absolutely not be a concern outside of dry months. Meaning January.
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Jaye
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Re: Day 14

Post by Jaye » Thu May 09, 2019 4:14 am

Thanks everyone! I took the advice to sleep on it, and did manage to leave it alone. I checked in at 3:00 and there was still no progress and no signs of movement. On top of that, another egg has pipped, so now I am afraid to open the incubator to get the "egg in trouble" out to try to help it along. I will give the second one some time to hatch and hopefully it will be quick like the ffirst one was. Hopefully by the time i have to get up, there will be an opportunity for me to do something about the one in distress.
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RIP Scooby, AKA Awesome Dog. Too well loved to ever be forgotten. "Sometime in June", 2005 - January 24, 2017.
"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened" - Anatole France

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Kbr42
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Re: Day 14

Post by Kbr42 » Thu May 09, 2019 7:02 am

What would do without @windwalkingwolf ! Thanks for that information!
@Jaye , I have opened the incubator to help a chick in distress. I quickly open, grab, egg, and wet the sponge (warmwater) and it quickly brings the humidity up to normal. It is stressful knowing what the right thing to do is, you'll do the right thing. Hang in there.
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Jaye
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Re: Day 14

Post by Jaye » Thu May 09, 2019 9:00 am

Kbr42 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 7:02 am
What would do without @windwalkingwolf ! Thanks for that information! [...]
I know, right? I wouldn't know what to do without assistance from WWW ... and all the helpful people here on PTO for that matter.

Well, the egg that pipped and zipped at 3:00 am this morning had more or less hatched by the time I had to leave this morning. I had to put #5 into the brooder because it was pecking at the new hatch. The chick that stopped zipping is still alive; I could see it breathing through the hole. DH volunteered to give it some help this morning after chick #18 (the only Brabanter egg that made it) has had a chance to dry off a bit and rid itself of the big part of the shell still stuck to it's butt.
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RIP Scooby, AKA Awesome Dog. Too well loved to ever be forgotten. "Sometime in June", 2005 - January 24, 2017.
"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened" - Anatole France

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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Day 14

Post by windwalkingwolf » Thu May 09, 2019 12:16 pm

What would you do without me? Well, you'd just have to find another obnoxious know-it-all :laugh: don't worry though, we're everywhere :laugh:
I'm on the edge of my seat @Jaye , anxiously awaiting updates :xfingers: :xfingers: :xfingers:
P.S. I've got some "Charlie" eggs in my incubator as well, I set 8 eggs on the 2nd, and all fertile and developing except one! :wee:
He is a very spoiled rooster. I never saw him eat until two days ago. I knew he must be eating, but as soon as I entered he would get as far away from me as possible and do his best to be invisible until I left. A couple days ago I held some treats out on a spoon, and all of a sudden he was a completely different bird. He waltzed right up to me and started eating out of the spoon, calling the hens, even let me touch him...and I realized I've been feeding him wrong this whole time :rofl:
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Happy
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Re: Day 14

Post by Happy » Thu May 09, 2019 9:10 pm

Any news Jaye?
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Jaye
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Re: Day 14

Post by Jaye » Fri May 10, 2019 9:23 am

Good news and bad news. And probably more bad news this evening after doing a water test on the remaining four unhatched eggs.
Good news: our little Brabanter chick seems to be doing alright. Yesterday DH removed the main part of the shell from it's butt and this morning I managed to soak off the last bit of shell that was stuck to something (umbilicus or un-absorbed intestines?) underneath it's vent. Once that spot is healed we'll try putting it in the brooder with it's hatch mate, who is eating well and growing.
Bad news: After freeing the little one that had stopped zipping, and getting it all unglued, we decided that we had to euthanize it because it's wry neck was so bad that we didn't think it would survive and we just don't have the experience to try to fix it. We also had the sense that it was suffering. :-(
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RIP Scooby, AKA Awesome Dog. Too well loved to ever be forgotten. "Sometime in June", 2005 - January 24, 2017.
"Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened" - Anatole France

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