I DID miss something!
For some reason, I thought this pen had both black and blue hens and that the rooster was blue columbian. That'll teach me to re-read before I shoot my mouth off making wild guesses. Well, probably not
Ontario Chick wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:26 pm
That is it for the Blacks, when I was handling them, there seems to be quite a difference in sizes, I am really curious what type they will develop, it almost seems as if deeper I dwell in to the colours separation, more I am loosing the type, what is your take on that Jan???
Oh boy, do you really want me to peek in that can of worms? ok
I'm sure you already know many of the things I'm about to say, but I'm going to type them out anyway because maybe it will help me organize my (rather scattered) thoughts so that I can hopefully say something smart and relevant and new
Legal disclaimer: When I use the masculine "He", His", "Him", "Guy", etc., it is for the sake of expediency and implied to mean masculine OR feminine
Well, the main pitfall of outcrossing is, it's a huge gamble. If you outcross to improve type, you can lose colour (and get worse type, and better type, and better colour, and odd weirdo chicks) and if you outcross to improve colour, same thing, except with type often seemingly suffering first. You are gambling every time you outcross, and the odds are AT BEST, one in ten is a keeper. If you get one in ten, you've won the gamble.
If you're outcrossing to improve something a little more ephemeral, like wanting a specific disease resistance, all I can say is good luck, god speed, and come back and talk to me in 500 years
In my experience, such things take decades or even centuries, and those who claim to have accomplished it in a few short years are full of you-know-what or setting themselves up for some hard life reality.
If you only line breed and are rigorous about culling, you end up with reasonably consistent birds (reasonable being MORE than one in ten is keeper quality) but no matter how strict you are about culling faults and weaknesses, eventually you bottleneck and you end up with birds that are infertile, or only live to be two years old, or are hatched missing eyes or extremely susceptible to infections, or whatever, etc., etc.. An isolated pocket of a variety that's been kept by a breeder for 30 years may look absolutely amazing, but remove them from their little bubble so you can continue the line or invigorate your own, and those bottlenecked birds will start dropping dead.
The difference in sizes in the chicks, I would NOT worry about, unless some are obviously lagging behind, refusing food (or getting bullied away from it) OR you are seeing a regular trend of small chicks maturing into undersized or bad type adults. Scrupulous chick banding and record keeping would come in handy to identify if that last is the case. Generally though, in my experience, size in chicks has very little bearing on adult size and weight, unless there's something wrong and it's ongoing. Some guys are just slow starters or mature and fill out later than others. Chick size and weight is also not necessarily related to TYPE. A skinny chick that's perpetually bullied away from food will not mature into a good, type-y bird if left with his broodmates, but separate him to a different group and he just might end up to be the best bird you've ever seen. Or, he might never get the breast muscle he needs to be a good type-y bird, because there's something wrong with him and that's why he was small in the first place.
But if you're breeding a small flock that you want beautiful but tough as nails come hell or high water sorts of birds, you cull the skinny little guy if he doesn't figure things out and start filling out. It's a balancing act with a small flock, figuring out when (and if) to nurse a slow starter or little guy along, or give up and consign him to the Fire.
But for now, we'll just say that size doesn't matter out of the gate, er, egg. Most of the time, it really doesn't.
There ARE some little things that you can start to look for even at this young age, that DO matter when it comes to 'type' , and will not change all that much as the chicks get older. Things like, relative length and angle of their spine, depth and shape of their keel, the angle of their tail as the feathers come in, and the relative size of their wings. The way they walk and run--how well balanced, and whether they're upright, or straight, or leaning forward. Pick them up, often, from a very young age. Feel their heft, get used to how round or thin, long or short they feel. Whether they're heavy in front or back or well balanced. Whether their keel is knife-edged despite feeling heavy, or blunt feeling despite being light, or anything in between.
I do this OFTEN with chicks, sometimes several times a day in the case of some of the more needy attention-seeking guys lol. Taking mental notes whether consciously or not, I've found I've gotten pretty good at figuring out who will be a decent, healthy, type-y bird and who will be a layer/petstock, and who will likely end up in the freezer should they live so long.
I have no idea if other breeders notice these things in chicks, or do things the way I do. I'm just really nitpicky, er, obsessive, er, anal, er, er, particular. Yeah, we'll go with that. Maybe too much so: six years of breeding BJGiants and I've currently got 6 birds. Well, four I'd breed,plus one elderly ugly hen and one pullet that's a possible, maybe, but I'd rather not given a choice. Maybe it's better if you just ignore my advice and ask someone else