Poultry Talk Ontario (pto.ca)

okay....some of us suffer from it.....and i mean suffer. holy moly.

Mine is a little more complicated because i have developed a synovial cyst in a facet joint between L4 and L5. so it's a little off to the side of the spinal canal, and is a swelling in the lining in the synovial lining of the joint that allows you to twist. Apparently rare (lucky me). I also have arthritis and loss of cartilage in all my facet joints from L2-L5, disc bulging at 2, 4, 5. L2 vertebrae is falling off L3 (retrolisthesis-falling backwards). The normal i hear is for L5 to be falling forward off Sacrum....along with L5 disc deterioriation. Apparently i don't have that (yet).

DDD (Degenerative Disc Disease) is progressive osteoarthritis apparently, but can be inflammatory as well....thickening of the ligamentaum flavum (the big ligament that stabilizes the vertebrae), loss of disc height due to dehydration and compression-also the reason we get shorter over time...with that loss of height the discs get brittle too, and bulge out. the spinal cord itself actually ends at about L1, but the nerve roots and cauda equina are in the canal below that. so swelling there is a BAD thing. a nerve comes out at each level, but there's also another nerve that traverses through the foramen beside the spinal cord, so where my cyst is L5 is pushed on by the cyst and L4 is also pushed on but that L5 nerve root transverses through the space, doesn't come out, L4 comes out at L4, L5 goes through....as the discs dry out the marrow of the vertebrae changes and becomes fibrotic, kinda gets "moth eaten". that can be seen easily on the MRI. it's just arthritic changes in the bone. so far i have that at L2, L3, L4, L5 and T12. for some reason L1 doesn't....hm.....

HM. what else....
oh, osteophytes are bone spurs that form around the tops and bottoms of the vertebrae as the discs lose height. the pain from the losing height and muscles spasming and stuff apparently gets much better when the vertebrae naturally fuse, the osteophytes lock the vertebrae together. In my spine apparently L4-L5 has almost fused-i can feel it if i lean back while i'm sitting and then twist a little bit, i can feel them bumping over each other...doesn't really hurt, just feels funny, and it does limit my mobility and flexibility. i expect that in a few years i'll not be leaning side to side very easily....and i've had problems for about 8 years off and on. physio is the treatment of choice with core strengthening especially of abdominal muscles and the back spinal muscles. pelvic tilting, leg raises stuff like that. in my case physio really made things way worse, but once we found the cyst it made sense because the movements for the stabilization and strengthening are the worst thing to do for a cyst since that is in a joint that is constantly moving with the physio, and that makes the cyst worse. LOL. so. physiotherapists wouldn't touch it...

For me....i have found that heat really helps...a heating pad. the heated mattress pad on my bed is wonderful for sleeping, it's made a HUGE difference to being able to get out of bed without pain in the morning. Honestly, if i didn't have the pinched nerve pain from the cyst i would be able to live with the pain from the DDD. Because i know it will end when the natural fusion happens. which takes apparently 8-10 years. oh yay. painkillers are great for messing with the head so it doesn't hurt quite as much. if you have lightning strike like pain zipping down a leg, go to the doctor right away and demand imaging!!!!! it's not normal! gabapentin or lyrica works well for that. if you can't take lyrica, try gabapentin....gabapentin was the first one developed, lyrica is the "better" gabapentin. muscle weakness is a bad thing. and if you can't raise or point your toes...well....

facet joint arthritis: new experience when sneezing....pain like mad. pain on standing up from sitting. more comfortable to sit leaning forward.
Disc issue: constant pain even when sleeping, pain worse on sitting, better on standing, and more comfortable to sit leaning backwards.
nerve impingement due to cyst IN MY CASE: okay lying down in fetal position; pain better in morning, worse at night, progressively worse over the day, okay sitting, pain on walking or standing for period of time, relieved on sitting down for a few minutes.

well, this is some of the stuff i learned through reading.....treatment varies depending on the problem...
thanks for listening to me rant on and on....i'm very very glad that i saw the surgeon and at least we can try some things like the facet joint injections, see if those work. that's where they inject steroids right into the place where the pain is-they can do this for the cysts or for facet joint arthritis to try and decrease the inflammation. oh, my surgeon told me that painkillers, nerve drugs and NSAIDS like naproxyn are the way to go for this....so that's what i'm going to do for now.

WLLAdy, I`m so sorry, that`s HORRIBLE. I have no words. Just

I know about osteoarthritis and bone spurs, and that's tough enough to deal with, but what you have to deal with on top of that... I can only imagine. Hugs.

No worries guys (thank you!!!!) Just thought since i am not the only one here that we can discuss what we know and learn to help each other. I plan on posting what facet injections are like lol

I have had synovial replacement injections in my knees over the years . Not sure if similar . Lasted for about 6 months each time . Luck

I've had them done in my knees too-surprisingly didn't hurt at all, but didn't work for me very well. lasted about 3 days....so we'll see!!

I'm currently dealing with a sciatic issue in L4 or L5(likely culprit). Physio made it worse, waaay worse. I used to be able to sit for about 1-1/2 hours in the vehicle, now it's about 20 min (2 weeks ago it was about 30 seconds). Mri is scheduled so we can confirm source. After which, if the pain does not subside with exercise, surgery (removal of the bulge in the disc) may be required. I'm self employed, father of three with #4 on the way, just moved to our own farm, and have one of the most physically demanding jobs on the planet. If this doesn't get rectified soon, I'm screwed as our busy season begins in April. It's been 4 months since first symptoms, and two weeks since last physio. Progress is slow, but I'm hoping to get back to how it was before physio at the very least (that pain was tolerable, not nice, but tolerable.

Wow, that takes a bit to process.
It's really hard to avoid cliches, but baby steps is the way to go.
No matter how good the Dr, you are the one who knows your body best, and only you will be able to make the right choices for you.
We have friends, husband was diagnosed with stenoses of the spine 20 years ago, he is a Dr, and opted not to have an operation, they sold large house in the country, moved to a condo in the "P E county" and although in pain when sitting, he still bikes every other day, well in to his seventies now. My impression was that they made such a huge change in lifestyle because of the diagnoses, but eventually felt that perhaps smaller adjustments would have been a wiser way to go.

Just throwing this out there but my biggest bang for my buck on my degenerative joint decease has been " Accupuncture " . Tried a few different ones that didn't help much then a customer of mine who had the same issues told me bout his . Worked from first trip on . Now I only go not often but when things rear up . Everyone's different just got to find what / who works for you .Some say it's snake oil but if it works it's better than crawling on floor & curling up & dieing . Luck Kathy

Arbor-it was physio that finally drove me to the doctor...it got way way worse...doctor thought a disc but turns out cyst in the joint. Go figure. Hope they gt your mri done soon!! I went from running 5km 4 times a week to 2 times a week..then less...then walking 5km then elliptical then that hurt so biking...now i cant do anything-more than 5 minutes drives me nuts pain wise. Have to be careful on stairs...keep catching my toes...we will all hang in there!!