Question Cedar Wood Chips

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Killerbunny
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by Killerbunny » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:09 pm

Turkeys will actually eat the needles off the pine trees (well mine do)!
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muffin57
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by muffin57 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:12 pm

Thanks to all of you for sharing. I think using the feed bag is a good idea and Ross we do have a lot of pine around here, so maybe next year I can convince some of the grandchildren to rake me up some needles. We have pine needles all over the ground in the lawn in the fall. Too late this year, as they are all covered in snow.
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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by windwalkingwolf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:37 pm

muffin57 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:47 pm
Yes, initially I thought the cedar chips would be so good to deter tics, lice etc. Are they only toxic if the chickens scratch them around? What is it exactly that is toxic about them? Is toxic oil released when they scratch in it. Would it be beneficial to just place a feed bag of cedar chips in the coop without putting them in the bedding or nest boxes? Just the smell might deter bugs/rodents. Do you know if they would be useful for outside of the coop to deter bugs and rodents or would they still be harmful to my chickens? Is there anything else I could use them for? Any one else use cedar chips for anything?
Red cedar does deter (red) poultry mites, not sure about ticks and lice. There are lots of studies about certain cedar (thuja) essential oils (thuja and thujone) and their neurotoxicity in rats and people, but I'm coming up with bupkis about poultry toxicity and even less than bupkis when it comes to poultry and cedar shavings. But it's probably a pretty safe bet that high or long-term exposure to either thuja or thujone wouldn't be a great thing. Also found this: "Cedar shavings used as bedding have been reported to stimulate drug-metabolizing enzymes in rodents and affect the mortality of rat pups".
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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by windwalkingwolf » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:25 am

OK, I followed some more bread crumbs...and I have to mention that all the studies I found specifically mentionin cedar shavings, all use what's known as Red Cedar, but specify some species of Juniper, usually Juniperus virginiana, which isn't cedar as we know it AT ALL. Juniperus and Thuja have several oils in common, so to my mind, if one is viewed with suspicion, so should the other be. I just thought I'd mention that because details can be important lol. I should also mention that all of the studies I did manage to dig up, were quite old. I think @Ontario Chick had a copy of some study done that was relevant? I'd love to see it again if you still have it, OC. I haven't been able to find it anywhere else :-)
The study showing the detrimental effect of "red cedar" (juniper)shavings on rat pups is rather interesting, so I've tried to upload the file in case anyone wants to read it for themselves. I don't think any of us are breeding rats, not deliberately anyway :lol: but juniper shavings may be useful as an adjunct to all of our rodent control programs!! Instead of using the shavings IN the coop, it might be worthwhile to dump them underneath ;)
red cedar rat pup mortality..pdf
(453.43 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
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Killerbunny
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by Killerbunny » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:41 am

I also found that when I tried the bedding shavings wrapped in plastic there was a very strong resinous smell. I went back to paper wrapped and didn't use the plastic one I had for chicks.
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:iheartpto:
Beltsville Small White turkeys.
Mutt chickens for eggs
RIP Stephen the BSW Tom and my coffee companion.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave Splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.
:turkey:

:bat:

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Farrier1987
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by Farrier1987 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:17 am

Killerbunny wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:41 am
I also found that when I tried the bedding shavings wrapped in plastic there was a very strong resinous smell. I went back to paper wrapped and didn't use the plastic one I had for chicks.
Seems to me wrapping plastic would defeat the purpose. That was whyI suggested and old onion sack. Just thinking right now that an old pair of panty hose might just be the thing. Loosely filled and then sort of shaped to the bottom of the nest box.

And as for the rats, it is a known fact that laboratories cause high mortality rates in rats. And people still hang around laboratories and seem to do ok mostly.
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Farrier1987. South of Chatham on Lake Erie. Chickens, goats, horse, garden, dog, cat. Worked all over the world. Know a little bit about a lot of things. No incubator, broody hens.

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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by windwalkingwolf » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:12 pm

Farrier1987 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:17 am

And as for the rats, it is a known fact that laboratories cause high mortality rates in rats. And people still hang around laboratories and seem to do ok mostly.
roflmbo roflmbo Very true, I've never heard of any person experiencing cervical dislocation in a laboratory! I'm pretty sure I know a few who should though, for scientific research purposes, of course. For the good of all mankind roflmbo
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Ontario Chick
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by Ontario Chick » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:24 pm

Sorry Jan it wasn't me, I just buy any old c.r.a.p. they sell me at the feed store ;) and always suspicious of anything anybody wants to give me for free :-)
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muffin57
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by muffin57 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:33 pm

Thanks for the info www. I like the idea of putting them under the coop to deter the rodents. OC you are right, but I trust the source of the wood chips, as they are fresh wood chips that my uncle just planed.
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windwalkingwolf
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Re: Cedar Wood Chips

Post by windwalkingwolf » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:31 am

Killerbunny wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:09 pm
Turkeys will actually eat the needles off the pine trees (well mine do)!
People can eat pine needles (in moderation) too, they're actually a good source of vitamin C, and may very well be the reason that human communities survived northern living during the last ice age ;)
muffin57 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:33 pm
Thanks for the info www. I like the idea of putting them under the coop to deter the rodents. OC you are right, but I trust the source of the wood chips, as they are fresh wood chips that my uncle just planed.
Then by all means, use them. You know they are actual cedar, and since all the science-y stuff on "red cedar" is actually talking about juniper, I say real cedar is innocent until proven guilty. They're free, which helps! Hey, if it helps, Vicks Vap-O-Rub has cedarleaf oil (thuja) in it and how many of us were slathered in that stuff (or even ate it) 5 times a year as children? Chickens don't have to live 100 years ;)
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