Big grocery going cage free?

Farrier1987 · Post by **Farrier1987** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:17 pm

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/loblaw-m ... -1.2823521

Just read this one. I find it not really believable. Walmart sells for less, because most of their stuff is worth less. goes for all the rest mentioned in the article too.

Enriched cages? I guess its an improvement, allowing each hen an extra few square inches, but it is no way for any animal to live. I like my 30 or so birds running on an acre, but not commercially viable.

SandyM · Post by **SandyM** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:19 pm

2025 eh? Go big or go home. 2025 is not acceptable. The problem is eggs really, on the grand scheme of things, don't cost a lot to purchase. So to do the 'upgrades' it's all money. I suppose it's better than nothing, I just can't get my head wrapped around 2025.

TomK · Post by **TomK** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:37 pm

Its an interestng dilemma..how do you give the people in the city what they need and still manage to treat the animals properly...we are too many..its just that simple...and the demand is not going to ebb and we have lived in a get what you want when you want it world for so long now that its almost unfathommable to concieve of any other way of living...we are willing to spend 5$ on a latte but not 4$ on a dozen eggs...or 5 or 6 ....all screwed up...until we get our heads on proper valuation it will never get fixed...and the animals will suffer as a result...

..currently we have a set of guidelines for egg producers, as an example, that have them investing millions of dollars to comply and produce eggs for the massses and a profit....then we get all bent out of shape because those same guidelines come from the stoneage where consideration for the animals in our care extends only as far as maintaining them for commercial viability, nary a word for comfort or quality of life and demand changes...that same producer slowly attempts to invest to comply with the newer standards at a huge outlay of capital, but the consumer needs to bear the brunt of the cost... The market price needed to compensate for the necessary capital investment is unsavoury to those same people demanding the changes and they start to buy the cheaper eggs imported from offshore producers in jurisdictions not governed by the same rules...and then they go buy the latte...

baronrenfrew · Post by **baronrenfrew** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:58 pm

Yep, Tom's right. I see the story of pig farmers in England. High ethical standards for space for the pigs, but the meat sold in stores is not ethical and the locals can't compete with the low prices so they quit with pigs or sell overseas to a place that will pay more for ethical pigs.

kenya · Post by **kenya** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:17 am

They started the battery cages because of illness, birds eating their own

, increased deaths therefore antibiotics needed therefore increase costs, the cage system prevented this therefore decreasing costs, no antibiotics needed. The general public wants cheap , the farmer wants to make a little money ,there lies the delema.

TomK · Post by **TomK** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:18 am

Kenya...totally true...the public better start getting used to 'not so cheap' because even the crap food available is starting to cost too much for what you get and not only does the farmer want to make a little money, he/she NEEDS to make a little money or there won't be a farmer

Bayvistafarm · Post by **Bayvistafarm** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:22 am

Money is a huge part of it all. Has anyone figured out the cost of a new barn? And quota? Oh... and birds? I mean the traditional way. To take those barns, and either bulldoze them down to make the more animal welfare friendly ones doesn't justify the cost. They probably put those years ahead as a guideline, so that new barns will be built that way... and the older barns won't be worth upkeeping any longer. What does the farmer get for a dozen eggs. Nothing near what the store gets. Like the broccoli farmer. He gets CENTS a head... and everyone else gets the rest of the 'pie'.

Factor in electricity, feed, labour, parts/equipment repairs/shipping... add in what the egg board takes off.... in an operation is staggering.

SandyM · Post by **SandyM** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:45 am

Umm, excuse me Mr. TomK :)
The general public over here is very used to food not being cheap. My food bill easily runs us $1200 a month and that's because Josh ate at his Nonna's a few days. We don't buy boxed food for the most part, some yes, but not like pizza etc. More like phyllo or a box of granola bars if I have a busy week ahead and won't be able to make any. Most of our costs fall in the organic and produce section. If it's on the dirty dozen I try to buy those items organic. If it's on the clean fifteen I'm more tolerant unless the price between the two is minimal. A bag of organic apples cost me $17 earlier in the week. They were gone in 3 days. But what do you say to your kid, don't eat the apples? Josh has ADHD and ever since we changed up his diet (many moons ago) and avoid pesticides and 'treated' meats his is medicine free and his express traits are reduced by 90% and unlike many of his friends he is drug free...anyways.....

A big problem is the mark up from the farmer to the seller (ie: Loblaws) and the massive structures in which these foods are displayed and sold. The farmer sells at his bare minimum and often is bullied and manipulated into that price. But where do I go for my produce if not supporting a huge chain? And we go through a lot of produce over here. How to fix this as a consumer I don't know.

ross · Post by **ross** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:53 am

As a free thinking consumer I go where I have a free choice of my own not what someone else thinks is best for me . That's why I don't go to A&W anymore . Right or wrong according to others , I want the choice .