Mixing chicks from different farms

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Flat Rock Farm
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Flat Rock Farm » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:44 pm

:iagree: Not worth the risk.
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thegawd
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by thegawd » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:49 pm

Ya I take back what I said too... iv been into poultry for 4 years now and realize that I have gotten away with a lot when I started up. iv not quarantined birds and mixed chicks I bought with chicks iv hatched and ya I have been lucky. iv since learned a lot especially during the Ai outbreak, the importance of quarantine, record keeping and traceability.

Im glad you didnt follow through with my advice as its horribly wrong. now im going to delete that post...

have a great night!
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by goatgal35 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:31 am

thegawd wrote:QR_BBPOST Ya I take back what I said too... iv been into poultry for 4 years now and realize that I have gotten away with a lot when I started up. iv not quarantined birds and mixed chicks I bought with chicks iv hatched and ya I have been lucky. iv since learned a lot especially during the Ai outbreak, the importance of quarantine, record keeping and traceability.

Im glad you didnt follow through with my advice as its horribly wrong. now im going to delete that post...

have a great night!
I wouldn't say your advice was wrong. I think part or what makes this site so wonderful it that when we ask a question we get advice based on a lot of different peoples experiences. It saves us a lot of trial and error and then we can make a decision as to what will work best :)
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by SandyM » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:59 am

Question. Do chicks not build immunity to illness's? Or disease? Most animals build immunity as they are exposed, and especially if they are placed on medicated feed for 'immune support'. Isn't exposure the same thing as vaccines? In most vaccines is a live version of the virus/disease and is introduced to build immunity. exposure to different germs, disease etc IMO would do the same. Of course if there is an overload of disease and/or a compromised chick you'll have a problem, but there has to be some credit given for immune systems. Eventually those chicks will be exposed to the 'main' coop which is a whole load of different bacteria than their brooder etc.
(I don't use medicated starter, just probiotics and ACV)

I'm conflicted as to what my response would be here. So I'll stay neutral and not express my opinion. Just thought I'd put my thought process/questions up.
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Killerbunny
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Killerbunny » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:04 am

Again I feel it depends where the chick comes from. Is it from a robust backyard flock/experienced breeder etc. Or is it from a sterile commercial hatchery? No scientific basis for my thoughts. I don't feed medicated but I've been lucky so far. I want them to build immunity with exposure which is why I like to give them time outside asap. I've never brought in chicks however only my own birds chicks or hatching eggs. I have sometimes brought in adults and then only from known breeders (but my very first 10 were RTLs from Freys).
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Robbie » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:52 am

SandyM wrote:QR_BBPOST Question. Do chicks not build immunity to illness's? Or disease? Most animals build immunity as they are exposed, and especially if they are placed on medicated feed for 'immune support'. Isn't exposure the same thing as vaccines? In most vaccines is a live version of the virus/disease and is introduced to build immunity. exposure to different germs, disease etc IMO would do the same. Of course if there is an overload of disease and/or a compromised chick you'll have a problem, but there has to be some credit given for immune systems. Eventually those chicks will be exposed to the 'main' coop which is a whole load of different bacteria than their brooder etc.
(I don't use medicated starter, just probiotics and ACV)

I'm conflicted as to what my response would be here. So I'll stay neutral and not express my opinion. Just thought I'd put my thought process/questions up.
Yes and no are the answers to all your questions ;-)
It depends on the virulence of the pathogen and the number of infectious agents required for disease to develop. There are infectious bacteria, fungi, viruses, parasites (single and multi celled) and prions.
The immune response will sometimes also respond to non- infectious antigens, like pollen or peanuts :-) or a transplanted kidney. Anything the body does not recognize as "self".
For example, Chicks will eventually develop immunity to coccidia, if small numbers of coccidia are introduced- but if they are exposed to too many before they develop immunity they will sicken and perhaps die from it. With virulent strains of avian flu, one single virus is enough to cause disease, and it's likely that the chicken will die from it. The immune response requires time, and sometimes the infective agent is just to fast for it. And, depending on the immune response avoiding behaviours of the disease organism, a chicken can be infected, remain infected, but not be "diseased" (ie not showing symptoms) but still pass the infectious organism on to other chickens.

Live vaccines are inherently more "dangerous" than killed or other types of vaccines. Generally it's not a virulent strain , it's a lab strain that's been weakened so it supposedly generates an immune response without actually being able to cause disease. But they always have the potential to revert and cause disease so they are risky. There are other types of vaccines that do not use the actual infective agent, sometimes a dead one will illicit an immune response , or a "piece" of it or a protein from it that induces an immune response. The immune response varies, sometimes it's weak and boosters are required. It all depends. the immune response includes specific (to the antigen) and general mechanisms.
Infection by the real deal will result in one of these things: sickness and death, sickness and recovery with the elimination of the organism and immunity to the next attack (ideally), sickness and apparent recovery but remains infected/infective, or infection without visually being Sick- either recovering or remaining infective. sometimes individuals will recover from the disease but have permanent damage, think of polio for example or ILT in chickens where production never recovers.
Immunity to one disease causing organism does not necessarily cause immunity to another. The immune response is extremely complicated.
As a general rule of thumb, immunity to viruses lasts a lot longer than immunity to bacteria. The length of time the immune system "remembers" the disease causing organism varies as well- for example Lyme disease. Dogs and humans can be repeatedly infected by the bacterium that causes Lyme.
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Killerbunny
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Killerbunny » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:59 am

Don't even get me going on acceptable vaccination schedules!
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Bayvistafarm » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:02 am

Its hard for a sick chick to build an immunity... (but of course one HAS to be sick, or exposed to the said disease, before it CAN build one), but chicks are pretty fragile. I would suspect you would have to have an awful lot of chicks, so you would have enough survivors to carry on with.

That being said.... chicks hatched and raised outdoors with a hen seem better able to survive anything (cept a predator)... but when man tries to do things via incubator... brooder....stuff like that, disease seems to be more prevalent. I've never seen pasty butt ever, in a broody hens chick. I have 3 chickens who free range constantly. Anywhere they want. They are over 5 years old now. The other hens do get outside.... but they were incubated... 'hand raised'.... and kept inside, mostly in the winter-time. They are also the ones who are slowly dying off... and they are not necessarily old either.
Last edited by Bayvistafarm on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by Ontario Chick » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:05 am

SandyM wrote:QR_BBPOST Question. Do chicks not build immunity to illness's? Or disease?
I will opt fot the short answer ;)
Yes they do.....SLOWLY.
That is why you want to give them time to develop a robust immune system.
3 groups of chicks from different environments may contain different pathogens that individually wouldn't present a problem, but combined may be deadly.
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thegawd
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Mixing chicks from different farms

Post by thegawd » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:03 am

Thanks Goatgal, your totally right, and everyone else for your detailed responses. my biggest reason for changing my mind is all about the traceability, if all the chicks did get mixed and one group was sick (or maybe they wernt sick but carried something) that infected and killed the rest, traceability gets lost.

mixing them at a later age when they outgrow the brooders and have had a chance to build up their immune system would be a much better idea.
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