Question Another Humidity Question

[Army]

We wanted to try incubating some of our eggs and bought a "Cheap Chinese Incubator". That was followed by a second one.

The failures on these this are pretty bad. Out of two incubators, I've replaced one heater, and FOUR humidity sensors. (In less than a year.)

I've never had even a 50% hatch rate out of them. The last straw was when both were loaded up with eggs, I got about a 20% hatch (About 30% if I don't count the eggs that candled clear.) out of one of them and nothing at all out of the second one. I suspect that the humidity, temperature or BOTH were off significantly, causing the problem.

One thing I noticed with a lot of eggs done in these units is that with the eggs that didn't hatch (although many pipped) is that the chicks were stuck to the inside membrane. Which I believe means the humidity was too low.

So I decided to build my own.

I purchased an incubator controller (yeah, from China) that is much higher quality than what's in the cheapies. It's a Model "XM-18" that seems to be used in a lot of the commercial grade incubators coming out of China.

In the instructions that come with it, and also based on the default settings in the controller, the humidity settings seem to be a lot higher than what came with the Cheap ones.

Specifically, it says to run it at 60% for the first 6 days, drop it to 55% for days 7-12, back up to 60% for days 13 to 18, and 70% starting at day 19. This seems a bit high from what I've seen. There's also a progressive temperature reduction at days 7, 13 and 19.

I also have an "Egg to Chick Guide" from Brower that makes incubators and equipment. It says to put the temperature at 37.5°C for the entire incubation period, and the humidity at 50-55% for the first 18 days then bump it up to 75% on day 19.

It's confusing to say the least.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Here is a picture of the chart that comes with the controller I bought and the Brower guide as a link.




And the Brower Egg to Chick guide.

egg to chick guide.pdf

(185.7 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

[Ontario Chick]

The egg to chick guide seems to be pretty much on the nose, deviation of about 10% on the humidity would not be a problem,
i.e. 40 -45 % the first 18 days and 65 % on day 19 will also work well and of course anywhere in between.
Al the DIY guru here will chime in I am sure.

[Army]

Thanks.

After reading the bit in the humidity section of the Egg to Chick guide, and the part about the chick not being able to rotate in the shell to peck the cap off (if it's stuck to the shell/membrane) I realized it describes what happened to a lot of mine that pipped but never hatched. I actually tried to "help" some of those out of the shell and realized just how badly they were literally "glued" to the inside of the shells.

Which suggests that the humidity readings given in those cheap incubators was way off of the actual amounts.

BTW, the incubators I'm referring to are these:

[windwalkingwolf]

Chinese or not, if a table top incubator comes with a built-in digital humidity readout, don't trust it. EVER. Heat plus humidity plus unsealed electronics equals failure sooner or later. Use a wet bulb hygrometer, or digital is fine if it uses a remote probe, or the easiest way (and the one that  works best for me personally) is to go by ambient humidity in the room...But I use a still air incubator so I don't need as much humidity for good hatches as one with a fan, so that might not work for you. But, definitely backup thermometers, if they can be calibrated even better...And backup humidity meters. And, until you've got the kinks and bugs worked out, check, check, check. Set an alarm if you have to.

[kenya]

I would never put my humidity up to 75% that would drown the chicks. Probably the highest I put it is 55%

[Home Grown Poultry]

Ya I use multiple hydrometers and thermometers while testing. All my units are homemade and I have them pretty much dialed in, I have different sizes of water dishes that are automatically filled. Its all about the surface area of the water dishes, combined with the ambient humidity which can make or break a hatch. Stupid me, I went with the same water dish I would use in the middle of summer without checking my hydrometer for a hatch right around xmas, one chick hatched and the rest drowned, the humidity did not appear to be to high during lockdown but after the first chick hatched the humidity must have really spiked causing the unhatched eggs to suck in water. A huge mistake, I should have payed a lot more attention and switched things up.

But thats the opposite problem that your having. I also would never keep the humidity that high. I do what they call the "dry method." I aim for 45% RH for the duration of the incubation period and 55-60 RH % for the last 4 days. I have a dedicated hatcher so I dont have to mess with the settings of the incubator and possibly screw up eggs not ready to hatch.

So basically, dont trust those digital readouts, get a few different hydrometers/thermometers and verify the readings independently. I use a combination of indoor/outdoor digital thermometers/hydrometers, reptile/fish digital thermometers/hydrometers as well as regular thermometer/hydrometers. My most accurate and trusted thermometer is a digital fish tank one I bought 20 years ago and my trusted hydrometer is a regular round household unit, I believe its much more accurate than the digital ones, the numbers just didnt seem right to me on the digital readouts. But while testing I use everything I have to verify accuracy.

One other thing I read about those economical plastic digital incubators is they are not insulated really at all. I dont know if thats the same model I was looking at a while back but it was highly recommended to keep the Styrofoam shipping package the unit came with on the incubator at all times, it really helps stabilize things.

One huge tip is what works for others wont necessarily work for you. you will have to figure out exactly what works best and gives you the best hatch rates.

Good luck!!!

Edit.... one huge thing I learned while building my incubators n hatcher is that the eggs can not have a fan blowing on them directly, especially eggs about to hatch. It dries them out way to fast and they will get shrinkwrapped no matter what the RH is.

Check out my builds, on my incubator I have a box on top with 2 100 watt Globe rough use bulbs in it (these bulbs are teflon free where most rough use bulbs have teflon on them. Teflon when heated releases a toxic gas that will kill all birds) so the box is on top of the incubator, a fan blows into the box and 2 hoses run to the bottom of the incubator to circulate the air.

My best incubator build...
incubator build

My hatcher build...
Hatcher Build

These are my "incubation notes" I used these a lot when building and testing my builds. They helped a tonne for troubleshooting and making adjustments as well as keeping track of the hatch.

Incubation Notes

[modern17]

I have had multiple sizes and brands of incubators over the past 40 plus years... Most of the smaller ones are junk a best. ( imo)( not trying to be mean but this from experience)
I started out with a hova bator.. if you follow the direction on them and put them in a even temperature room ( no fluctuation in temps ie windows where sun affects temp, or room with a heat source ie fireplace furnace .. ) and follow the humidity directions they work ok.... Metal incubators are just a waste of time in my experience as the metal dispenses the heat and they never hold temp properly ( IMO) . Roll X type work well and some swear by them ... personally I had issues with the humidity with these and blamed it on the plastic not breathing .. in other words holding too much humidity. whether that is fact is not proven but just my opinion... ... I have also used a Brinsea ,,, it was ok ( had it on load as a demo by a friend that was a dealer for them )They are ok but issues... 2-3 years after put into service parts tend to wear out .. and replacement parts take for ever to be shipped .. to me a reason not to buy one ... ... My old faithful was a IQF 1202... this machine I got second hand from a friend that was down sizing ( traded two hova bators for it ) ... he had ran it for 14 years prior to me getting it. I ran it for another 14 years... before the turner finally gave out. Other than yearly wafer replacement ( not electronic thermostat) and one micro switch at my year 10 .. this machine was amazing with if fertile eggs put int 75-90 % hatches where normal . I never worried about humidity ,or checked it... Just keep the wide shallow pan filled at all times( daily ) .. When the turner went... I priced out turners... for $200 more dollars ( back when the US dollar was near par with Canadian ) I could purchase the new model of a 1202 IOF now 1208 IQF it was electronic thermostat controlled came with a fill bucket ( kept on top for humiditiy control I fill it daily ) .. I have never looked back . The old machine I had I gave to a friend of mine.. he still uses it as a hatcher as the turner is not needed... in short the IQF series of incubators are work horses and this old one is still going strong...I have had the new one for several years now .. I have over 360 chicks out this spring ( last eggs for the year are in now ) with similar results as mentioned since I purchased it .. in short it works. I highly recommend seeking out a used 1202 ( old model ) or used 1208 ( new Model) for successful hatching ... Most of the small machines out there are not worth dealing in my opinion. If you watch the want adds in the poultry papers and local papers as well as farm auctions , Kijiji and other type sites ... you can find them .. well worth the investment even if you have to repair them a bit. Just my 2 cents .
TL

[Army]

QR_BBPOSTSo basically, dont trust those digital readouts, get a few different hydrometers/thermometers and verify the readings independently. I use a combination of indoor/outdoor digital thermometers/hydrometers, reptile/fish digital thermometers/hydrometers as well as regular thermometer/hydrometers. My most accurate and trusted thermometer is a digital fish tank one I bought 20 years ago and my trusted hydrometer is a regular round household unit, I believe its much more accurate than the digital ones, the numbers just didnt seem right to me on the digital readouts. But while testing I use everything I have to verify accuracy.

One other thing I read about those economical plastic digital incubators is they are not insulated really at all. I dont know if thats the same model I was looking at a while back but it was highly recommended to keep the Styrofoam shipping package the unit came with on the incubator at all times, it really helps stabilize things.


...Check out my builds, on my incubator I have a box on top with 2 100 watt Globe rough use bulbs in it (these bulbs are teflon free where most rough use bulbs have teflon on them. Teflon when heated releases a toxic gas that will kill all birds) so the box is on top of the incubator, a fan blows into the box and 2 hoses run to the bottom of the incubator to circulate the air.

There are more than one type (capacative vs resistive) and quality of sensors out there. I suspect these cheap plastic ones use the cheapest type and quality. It's possible that they get easily contaminated with bacteria that's almost always going to be there inside an incubator. That may explain the high failure rates I had.

I have some analogue Temp/Humidity gauges on order and will add them inside on the egg trays for further monitoring of the temp and humidity.

Insulation was/is definitely an issue with those cheap plastic ones. The guy I got mine from taped a note right onto the styrofoam shipping blocks telling the buyer NOT to throw them away. He'd already cut them so the display would be visible with the incubator still in the foam. So that solved the temp loss issues.

I checked out your builds. Wish the pics were a bit bigger for detail.


On my home built one, I took a page from the construction of some of the commercial ones and made insulated panels for the top, bottom and walls. Used G1S ¼" plywood for the inner and outer layers, 1x2's for "framing" them, and a layer of ¾" Johns Manville ISO insulation board in between. It has an insulation factor of about R5 at ¾". Outside walls remain cool and temp stability is pretty good.

I might have too much air flow inside though.

[Home Grown Poultry]

It sure sounds like you built an awesome incubator, I would love to see pics.

I do have all the original pics of my builds and I have been contemplating uploading larger pics. When I posted that thread the forum was in its infancy and we really wernt sure how pics were going to affect the server load so we requested people to post small pics. After a year and a bit we have a clearer understanding of how our server handles the pics and as such no longer require small pics to be uploaded, I still downsize them by simply taking screenshots but dont worry about it, it's not necessary.

Later on I will dig out the original pics and reupload them.

Have a good one!