Poultry Talk Ontario (pto.ca)

Starting 2018 with way more birds then I should have because I just couldn't let go of some of them, not really a very sensible start, but apparently age doesn't equal wisdom.....
I am going to do very purpose oriented breeding, the goal is one perfect Columbian cockerel for me and one perfect Blue Columbian cockerel for KB, to lock in some desirable genes, type and color for KB and type and comb and color for me.
For the Columbian, the plan is to breed Columbian male to Black hens.
For the Blue Columbian, the plan is to breed Blue Columbian male to Blue hens.
So Kathy and Jan, what are my chances I will get and what is the minimum number of birds I have to breed (no more then 30 :)

Should have aded, both the Blue and Black hens carry the columbian gene

Well, your odds are better this time around :) Don't use birds with ANY mossiness or pencilling if you can help it. You may have to look REALLY closely to find pencilling. If it's there, it will show up in certain lights as ghost markings, difficult to see when it's silver on silver or even silver on blue
I'm sure you've figured out that Columbian pattern is easy (4 generations away from a blue Columbian rooster, his solid black grandchildren are still popping out 1/8 white and blue kids), but well-defined, clean Columbian can be...messy.
How many birds do you need? Well, assuming they're all breeder quality, ALL of them of course :D I'm going to assume though, that you've only got 1 or 2 good roosters of the black Co, and 1 or 2 of the blue Co. I'm going to recommend THREE groups, the two you already have planned, but also the black Co cock over the solid blue hens... because blue Columbian tends to get washed out after successive blue on blue matings, and while pretty, you want to try and get the darkest Co markings possible. So as long as everyone is cooperating in the fertility department, do separate hatchings of the third group if you can, or otherwise put the black Co. over black and blue at the same time. Saves space and time, but you won't know what eggs came from which colour.
I'll leave it to Kathy to give you the science-y facts about how many you'll get of each colour, and only add that in my own limited experience, you will get more blues, blue Co.s, and blue splash co.s than black anything...but in my case, these observations mostly came from using solid roosters over Columbian carrying hens, so your results could be completely different.

Sounds like a total crap shoot to me...lol.. :running-chicken:

TomK wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:07 pm

Sounds like a total crap shoot to me...lol.. :running-chicken:

Hence why chickens are as addictive as gambling It's a gamble every time you breed, and you can only hope for the odds to be in your favour by picking the very best parents possible. Great offspring are your jackpot, and the odd surprise and the freezer campers keep it interesting:D

I don't see how you can "improve" birds while raising less than 100. Its a numbers business.
Then you keep the birds you like. Go big or go home.

I disagree with Tomk: its not a crapshoot which is pure luck. Its more of a poker game; some luck plus making decisions. Chasing a flush is better than chasing a straight, and "rockets" (pair of aces) only wins half the time.

windwalkingwolf wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:57 pm

Well, your odds are better this time around :) Don't use birds with ANY mossiness or pencilling if you can help it. You may have to look REALLY closely to find pencilling. If it's there, it will show up in certain lights as ghost markings, difficult to see when it's silver on silver or even silver on blue
I'm sure you've figured out that Columbian pattern is easy (4 generations away from a blue Columbian rooster, his solid black grandchildren are still popping out 1/8 white and blue kids), but well-defined, clean Columbian can be...messy.
How many birds do you need? Well, assuming they're all breeder quality, ALL of them of course :D I'm going to assume though, that you've only got 1 or 2 good roosters of the black Co, and 1 or 2 of the blue Co. I'm going to recommend THREE groups, the two you already have planned, but also the black Co cock over the solid blue hens... because blue Columbian tends to get washed out after successive blue on blue matings, and while pretty, you want to try and get the darkest Co markings possible. So as long as everyone is cooperating in the fertility department, do separate hatchings of the third group if you can, or otherwise put the black Co. over black and blue at the same time. Saves space and time, but you won't know what eggs came from which colour.

Surprisingly mossiness hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought it would be..
There is a definite tendency of the cColumbian cockerels for a suggestion of Silver leakage in the hackles.
I have considered combining the black and blue hens, for time and space saving, but live in fear of getting some Amazng chicks and not knowing how I got there.

From Chunky over Kibbles & Bits, all blues. When I told OC that the roosters I'd bred were AWFUL crow headed, split breasted, off colour, silver leakage birds I don't think she believed me, then she saw them LOL! All 8 of them for freezer camp. Now for the pullets - 1 blue with a second possibly now she's doing her adult moult, 4 Columbians, 3 dilute blue AND wait for it..... 3 WHITE, Duh????? Also one of the roosters is white.
So next year I will do what I'm told by OC because genetics makes my head hurt.

baronrenfrew wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:47 am

I don't see how you can "improve" birds while raising less than 100. Its a numbers business.
Then you keep the birds you like. Go big or go home.

I disagree with Tomk: its not a crapshoot which is pure luck. Its more of a poker game; some luck plus making decisions. Chasing a flush is better than chasing a straight, and "rockets" (pair of aces) only wins half the time.

Well of course you disagree with me Bert...lol...I would think i was in a parallel universe otherwise

Having said that, you are right..its a numbers game and I for one only know a little of the genetic stuff and will never have 100 birds so i raise birds from hatch or day olds and see what turns out and keep he nicest ones...not being very literate in the SOP I just go with what i see as a strong healthy bird.. I did that years ago breeding German Shepherds to what i understood the breed standard and watched all these other breeders destroy the breed locally, so I got out of it...hard to find a good dog in eastern Ontario...I won't do that with the birds...just want good healthy ones..if the leg colour is a little off or the back a little short really doesn't matter to me..thats just my world...everyone is free, as they say, to do as they wish, but i admire peoples efforts.. :running-chicken:

Oh you're so right on the GSs. Did you see that poor bitch at Crufts a couple of years back? A far cry from what I remember them being as a child.