Please Explain "BLUE / BLACK / SPLASH" I don't get it!!!

Ontario Chick · Post by **Ontario Chick** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:37 am

I was just looking at his picture, his son never reached the colour distribution, both his tail and wing covers were lighter, so never looked as impressive as Lucky.
If you look at the Ameraucana cockerel at the top picture, he also had the nice blue hackle and cape.
I may just start breeding Splash Ameraucanas only, wouldn't that make my life much simpler?

Silkie Sue · Post by **Silkie Sue** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:55 am

When i started breeding WC Black to WC Blue in the Polish, i always only got black or blue.. i was using a black cock with black hens and blue hens. as soon as i started using a Blue cock to the same hens i started getting the odd splash one... this is one of my splash pullets from this years hatch

this a splash cock from last years hatch

Ontario Chick · Post by **Ontario Chick** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:03 am

Wow, very nice Sue!

Post by **WLLady** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:14 am

Black = 2 wildtype alleles at the loci denoted by bl+ and bl+ = bl+/bl+
Blue = 1 wildtype (black) and one non-wildtype (blue) = bl+/Bl with the Bl being the non-black allele
Splash = 2 alleles of the non-black = Bl/Bl

so the punnet squares....

black x black = bl+/bl+ x bl+/bl+ (animal 1 is listed along top) (and animal 2 is on the left vertically) (kids are in the middle-take the allele from parent 1 on top and parent 2 on side and put them together)
bl+ bl+
bl+ bl+/bl+ bl+/bl+
bl+ bl+/bl+ bl+/bl+ all kids are bl+/bl+ which gives 100% black

black x blue

bl+ bl+
bl+ bl+/bl+ bl+/bl+ <---50% black
Bl Bl/bl+ Bl/bl+ <----50% blue

blue x blue

Bl bl+
bl+ Bl/bl+ bl+/bl+ 25% black (bl+/bl+)
Bl Bl/Bl Bl/bl+ 25% splash (Bl/Bl) and 50% (there's one in the top and one in the bottom row) Blue (Bl/bl+)

splash x splash

Bl Bl
Bl
Bl 100% splash=all Bl/Bl

black x splash bl+/bl+ x Bl/Bl gives everyone will be bl+/Bl (blue)
blue x splash Bl/bl+ x Bl/Bl gives 50% splash (Bl/Bl) and 50% blue (Bl/bl+)
etc etc

the alleles work so that only 2 copies of bl+ will give black.
Bl plus bl+ means that the action of the Bl dilutes the bl+ to blue, so black is lightened to blue (or there is a failure of darkening the blue enough to make black, in the end, it's blue)

the presence of two Bl means that the Blue is further lightened (or there is a complete failure of darkening) leading to a LIGHT bird with spots of the darker all over it. additional modifiers can affect the background (light) or the number/placement of the darker patches. but the bird is LIGHT with darker spots

for instance addition of mahogany may yield a darker reddish tinge to the hackle, saddle and wing triangle (male) or breast and hackle (female). note that sex makes a difference to the mahogany showing through-the males restrict it to the hackle and saddle and wing triangle, while hens restrict it to the breast and hackle. so a female MAY have some reddish appearing splashes-but only because the blueish spots are underlaid with the reddish from the mahogany being restricted. The regions of the male most affected would be wing triangle, hackle and saddle....and even the e locus doesn't mess with ground colour on a splash bird that much. if you have a dark ground colour with darker patches i would suspect mottling or pied to be involved more than BBS or possibly a combo of BBS and mottling/pied....but for rote BBS the splash should be light with darker portions.

Skinny rooster · Post by **Skinny rooster** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 am

Lol, welcome to confusion. Let me try to help. I breed splash Cochins. I started with a pair of blue. Splash should look like a light blue with splashes of darker blue, just like someone took a paint brush, dipped it in blue paint and flicked it at the bird. Blue and blue can make splash but most of the chicks will be blue. Blue and splash will make half and half if the blue has the splash gene. Splash and splash will make splash chicks but the problem with this breeding is the chicks will fade with this crossing. The people into splash want the birds that are light blue with many dark splashes evenly distributed throughout the bird. The way to get that is breed your splash back to a good blue. There, clear as mud?

madison174 · Post by **madison174** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:41 am

For silkies, this is what I was referring to. A light splash versus a darker splash....the difference only being the quantity of spots affecting the overall colour.

goatgal35 · Post by **goatgal35** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:41 am

Skinny rooster wrote:QR_BBPOST Lol, welcome to confusion. Let me try to help. I breed splash Cochins. I started with a pair of blue. Splash should look like a light blue with splashes of darker blue, just like someone took a paint brush, dipped it in blue paint and flicked it at the bird. Blue and blue can make splash but most of the chicks will be blue. Blue and splash will make half and half if the blue has the splash gene. Splash and splash will make splash chicks but the problem with this breeding is the chicks will fade with this crossing. The people into splash want the birds that are light blue with many dark splashes evenly distributed throughout the bird. The way to get that is breed your splash back to a good blue. There, clear as mud?

I always though splash had to have a white background with varying amounts of blue splashes, never a blue background? I though if you have a light blue background with blue splashes it was just a poor blue? Help, I'm confused?

Ontario Chick · Post by **Ontario Chick** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:37 pm

I would never want to judge color by how it looks on my laptop screen.
I think the misunderstanding comes from the difference in Blue tinged White, and Blue, which are completely different colors.
Splash in "hard feather" breed like Modern Games will look different then "soft feather" breed like Wyandottes, but the basics will still be the same.
Many Splash breeds are now accepted to SOP, so not that difficult to find a copy of the standard for your chosen breed.

Post by **WLLady** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:05 pm

so-for the genetics part-and ONLY the genetics part, the bbs is as i described above, and the presence of modifiers (other genes) can affect the overall "tone" of the colour of the bird.

For the visual, and the showing and what the bird actually *should* look like, OC is correct, find the SOP for whatever breed you are working on, and try to follow that. That SOP will be what you are striving for. Remember that what you get with the "genetics" vs what you want with the look of the bird are not going to be the exact same, because of the "modifiers" -many of which are just simply not known. So going by SOP for the breed will be the only real way you can get to the bird wanted. The genetics thing will help you to decide which birds you should pair to get to the SOP for your given breed, for instance if you want blue SOP you wouldn't breed splash to splash because you won't get blue....LOL. and if you want only black you should do that on a different e locus from the blue-but if you want splash you will need to either get splash to begin with or breed blue to black to get the starting splash and then go from there (and prepare yourself for a long haul of culling and selecting and hatching and breeding and selecting and culling etc).

windwalkingwolf · Post by **windwalkingwolf** » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:13 pm

And then there's 'self blue' (lavender) which is a whole other ball game...and 'paint' which looks just like Splash to me, but Paint breeders usually insist is different...