Ameraucana - Blue, Black and Splash discussion

[Shnookie]

I moved this over from the comb post.

QR_BBPOST Color is difficult to judge on the computer screen, but if the parents are Black over Splash, you have done an outcross, since each color Black, Blue and Splash are a separate variety and should be bread separately.

I haven't heard this before and I would like to know more. I have Grant Brereton's 21st Century Poultry Breeding book. I don't remember reading that. I will look again.

The blue chicks from my black/splash breeding don't have any brown that I can see.
I bred my black rooster to what I thought was a black hen, and which turns out to be a blue, and a couple of her blue chicks look black on the top with blue fluff (like her), they both have a duller look to their top feathers than her black chick. It could be brownish. The lighting isn't that good. I'll try to take a picture with a flash and see what they look like. The hen has dark black top feathers with green sheen, and medium blue fluff.

[Ontario Chick]

Here is a couple of Forums, that may help with more in-depth info on Breeding Blues.
http://ameraucanaalliance.org/forum/ind ... opic=386.0
http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread ... et-bluethe 2
the 21st Century Poultry Breeding touches only lightly on some basics, so will not go in to that kind of detail, as you can tell by the size of the book.
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Something that probably isn't mentioned often enough, if the right genetics aren't there, you can breed until cows come home, the stock isn't going to get any better.
I could wright books on that one :)

[Killerbunny]

Not to do with Ameraucanas but Wyandottes. The simple method of getting lovely birds. Let OC breed them then buy them. So much less heartache!

[Ontario Chick]

You are very kind, but you are aware I only know enough to realize exactly how little I know, right?
I really enjoyed much more the period about 15 years ago, when I still thought I had a good grasp of things.
PSO was just one of the places that totally discombobulated me of that idea

[Shnookie]

You're right OC. The 21st Century Breeding book doesn't have a lot about breeding blue, just the basics of how the genes work.
As far as getting lovely birds from OC, I don't see an easy way to do that. I'll just have to keep looking at them in the pictures she posts for inspiration. :)

[windwalkingwolf]

*tried to delete a duplicate post and failed lol*

[windwalkingwolf]

Now, Ameraucanas aren`t my breed, so I don`t know how accurate the information IS, but I had it explained to me like this: Every colour variety of Ameraucana has different parent breeds in the genetic makeup. For example, a blue wheaten had different parent breeds than a black, which had different parent breeds than a white, and so on...which means each colour variety is genetically unique from other varieties. They are called Ameraucana only if they are true to colour, type, and genetic makeup of the colour. If you breed a dark brahma to a light brahma, the offspring will still genetically be a brahma. Not so with Ameraucanas, because if you breed a black to a white for instance, no matter what colour the offspring are, they are now easter eggers because the unique genetic makeup of the colour varieties has now been changed. If you breed Amer. "A" with Amer. "B", some (perhaps overly) serious breeders will lynch you if you call the chicks Ameraucanas LOL!! Not only that, but if you then breed those EEs to each other, they will bear little to no resemblance to Ameraucana in fairly short order. Depending on the cross, some will get too large to meet SOP, some will be too small, tail too high, beard missing, colours all over the place, you get the idea. Those aforementioned overly serious breeders DO have valid concerns, though it's not much comfort to the person being lynched, and unfortunately has the opposite of intended effect--lots of people basically go F.U., breed Amer.s willy nilly and insist on calling anything with muffs and coloured eggs a 'purebred'.
With blue/black/splash, if you are breeding a blue to a black, etc., although occasionally necessary, it should be done as little as possible because you are essentially outcrossing due to different genetic makeups inherent in the breed colours. As a result, blue birds with a black parent will rarely be excellent type, or excellent blue colour, and the same is true of black birds that have a blue parent. The same is true of ANY breed of chicken, for example, I keep Black Giants, and if I bred them to a blue Giant, very few if any of the black offspring would have the same quality as the black parent stock. I would have to breed those black outcrosses back to black to begin getting good quality back, and same if I was breeding for blue colour--First generation blue chick with a black parent would be breeding quality if I was lucky (useable but not showable) and have to be bred back to a 'good' blue to get better grandchicks lol.This difference can be further heightened in newer breeds like Ameraucana, simply because they have not been bred out and back for very long, and the genetics are still very wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey.

[Ontario Chick]

QR_BBPOST You're right OC. The 21st Century Breeding book doesn't have a lot about breeding blue, just the basics of how the genes work.
As far as getting lovely birds from OC, I don't see an easy way to do that. I'll just have to keep looking at them in the pictures she posts for inspiration. :)

I think I have gone about as far I can go with my Ameraucanas, limited by the genetic make up of this strain.
If I have learned anything thru the past "several" years of breeding chickens, you can't just buy good birds, you have to breed them.
Unfortunately I see all the short comings and if I had access to better breeding stock I would be all over that, but for me this is where this train stops, so I will muddle on with what I have

[kenya]

With blue , black and splash ameraucana, they are often bred together and can in fact improve colour in your blues. Breeding blues only to blues will eventually lead to pale washed out blues. Splash is used when bred to black to get all blues, splash is not often used as you can't see the colour the bird would be without the splash covering it up so you don't really know if the bird has good colouring to pass on or not. Black is often used with blues to improve lacing and colour on the blues. Just a note though , blacks produced from blues should not be used to breed black ameraucana's as they tend to lose that beetle green sheen that you want for good blacks.

[Ontario Chick]

I think lots of problems with Breeding Blues arises from people looking for a simple recipe of "How to" and of course there isn't one, because what might work for one person and one strain will not necessarily work with another.
I have had very good success using Splash cockerel over Blue hens in Wyandottes, but care must be taken the the "Splash feathers" have good Blue colour and lacing.
Just a reminder of how far most of us are from a truly GOOD Blue color birds of >>any breed<<, here is a SOP description.
MALE
HEAD : glossy black
NECK : Hackle an even shade of clear bluish slate distinctly laced with glossy black
BACK : Back and Saddle - even shade of bluish slate each feather distinctly laced with glossy black
TAIL ; Main Tail, Main and lesser Sickles, Covers
an even shade of clear bluish slate each feather laced with glossy black
WINGS ; Fronts and bows, same as tail
COVERS ; same as tail
PRIMARIES ; an even shade of bluish slate
SECONDARIES ; lover webs an even shade of bluish slate, upper webs, clear bluish slate, each distinctly laced in black.
BREAST ; an even shade of bluish slate each feather having sharply defined lacing of black.
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MUST SOP NOW, getting a bit depressed
accept for the Andalusians, I have actually never seen Blue variety of ANY breed look close to that and I don't think Ameraucanas have ever gone past blue edging, definitely no lacing there.