Identifying illness through manure analysis

SandyM · Post by **SandyM** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:02 am

Jaye you're doing wonderful with her, admirable really. Hopefully canestan helps and starts the way back to recovery.

Please keep us posted!!

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:12 am

windwalkingwolf wrote:QR_BBPOST Yes, smell her behind for the tell-tale yeasty, sour smell like sourdough. And her breath, though I think if her infection was in her crop, she wouldn't eat anything at all. It's good news that she's eating something, anything, give her as much as she wants! Stewed spinach and deep fried houseflies if that's what she wants to eat lol, also great news she's roosting, still some fight in her yet!
Fish zole is metronidazole, aka Flagyl...can be found in pet supply places (though mostly south of the border) especially specialty supply places that cater to pigeons, seems to be the only place to find it anymore unless you can get a prescription from a human doctor or vet. It's sometimes called Fish zole because it comes in a water-soluble powder and used to treat fish diseases as well as thrush in birds. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Fish-Fish-Zole-M ... OSwe-FU4k9~
Nystatin liquid suspension is another option, available from vets. From anecdotal evidence online, some people have helped their yeasty hens by feeding them 1/2 a Monistat or Canesten suppository every day until better, personally I wouldn't try it unless I knew for sure that it was a candidiasis problem in the first place, but you know your hen best. Get better, little Annemieke!

Thanks for the support WWW.
Well this morning she was out in the run, but off to herself and huffed up. When I brought in scrambled eggs I gave her first shot at the dish and she ate quite heartily, plus she also attempted to eat some lettuce when I filled up the suet holder. I don't think she managed though, because she got crowded out by the rest of the gang.
So, I really don't know where to get Flagyl in this area on a Sunday, and although it may be candidiasis, I'm not 100% sure it is. Her butt does smell, but I'm not sure I would call it yeasty. Her breath is "fine". I think I will apply more Canesten cream to her vent later today, since it seems to be soothing and provides some relief for her, but I think I'm going to hold off on dosing with a suppository for now.I wouldn't really know how to administer either ... crush it up into something she'll eat?
This morning I took a pic of her deposit on the poo board. I apologize that it's gross, but I'm hoping that you or someone elese will know what this is a result of. Bear in mind that this is frozen manure embedded in PDZ. When it first comes out, it's wet and slimy.

SandyM wrote:QR_BBPOST Jaye you're doing wonderful with her, admirable really. Hopefully canestan helps and starts the way back to recovery.

Please keep us posted!!

Thanks for the encouragement, Sandy.

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:45 pm

I realize that you've all had enough of this topic, but I'm really hoping for some guidance as to what to do next. I had Annemieke inside today for monitoring purposes, and when I got home it was pretty obvious she hadn't eaten anything; in fact, she didn't touch any of the scrambled egg I left behind. That is her favourite food, and something she dug right into yesterday. She may have been turned off it because I laced two pieces of it with Fluconazole (anti-fungal) and fed them to her before I left for work this morning. Her butt is an unholy mess again, so will be cleaning her up and giving her another Epsoms salts soak after supper. Then I'll try to get some Stress-Aid water into her via eyedropper. Also, her comb seems almost jaundiced today. Yesterday it was still a good colour. I wonder if I should have left her with the rest of the flock in the run today, but I thougth it best to give her a rest in a warm house. Guess I read that all wrong.
I'm thinking there's some sort of internal infection going on, and maybe not candidiasis, but the only antibiotic I have on hand is gallimycin, but the package says it's for respiratory infections. Is it worth using this, or if not, can someone recommend something better ... that doesn't have to involve a $60-$100 vet visit? If I could be guaranteed that a visit to he vet would fix her up, I'd do it, but I've taken a hen to the vet before and it was all for nothing in the end.

Post by **WLLady** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm

Hi jaye

A yellow or whitish comb is anemia. If you have some b12 or iron hanging out-injectable. My immediate thought is a heavy parasite load-specifically worms. Usually you would see at least one shed in the feces if it was....fenbendazole (sheep or horse wormer-i think safeguard is fen)-pea sized bit on a piece of bread or something will make short work of any worms. Mites is the other that can drive a bird to anemia very quickly-but you checked her already for mites right? Otherwise she may be going into liver failure-the liver stores lots of blood...if she reddens again suddenly and then pales again she has blood clots blocking things-like people get sometimes leading to strokes. Only thing i am really sure of though is yellow comb=anemia and it could have so many causes....I sure hope whatever it is just suddenly clears up...oh..and i would definitely keep her separate and warm....if she is anemic she will be cold.

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:31 pm

WLLady wrote:QR_BBPOST Hi jaye

A yellow or whitish comb is anemia. If you have some b12 or iron hanging out-injectable. My immediate thought is a heavy parasite load-specifically worms. Usually you would see at least one shed in the feces if it was....fenbendazole (sheep or horse wormer-i think safeguard is fen)-pea sized bit on a piece of bread or something will make short work of any worms. Mites is the other that can drive a bird to anemia very quickly-but you checked her already for mites right? Otherwise she may be going into liver failure-the liver stores lots of blood...if she reddens again suddenly and then pales again she has blood clots blocking things-like people get sometimes leading to strokes. Only thing i am really sure of though is yellow comb=anemia and it could have so many causes....I sure hope whatever it is just suddenly clears up...oh..and i would definitely keep her separate and warm....if she is anemic she will be cold.

Hi WLLady. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I checked out her comb during last night's spa treatment, and it didn't appear yellow or white, just kind diluted orange/red. I did notice that it was redder again after the treatment, but at the time I chalked it up to the blood circulating better after the warm bath soak and the blow-dry. As for worms, I have Ivermectin on hand - would that work, or should I go with trying to find a source for fenbendazole? I haven't really seen any signs of worms in her excrement, though, and the whole flock was treated not that long ago. Just wondering if it's even worth treating her again, because it may put more stress on her weakened system. No signs of mites either, not under her wings, and not around her vent. I have to say this hen has the clearest skin complexion there: No swollen or red areas, no signs of feathers being picked at, normal-looking vent, not inflamed at all. Maybe the Canesten is helping to keep her vent from getting irritated.
She spent the night indoors and is still indoors today. She has stopped eating altogether - not even touching her favourite scrambled eggs. I think I may have been responsible for putting her off them because I rolled some in the anti-fungal in order to administer it. She did eat most of that, but then didn't eat any more of the non-medicated bits in the dish I left for her. :-( I fed her some stress-aid water by eye dropper last night as well as this morning before work, in case she doesn't drink today. I also massaged her crop. I didn't feel anything particularly solid, but it seemed a bit more inflated that I figure it should have been, given how little she's eaten. I also fed her some olive oil by eyedropper, hoping that it would get things moving if they are stalled somewhere along her digestive tract. I really don't know what else I can do other than keep "eyedroppering" vitamin water into her. Maybe I should liquefy her scrambled eggs so that I can feed her that by eyedropper too? I don't know at this point if I'm prolonging the inevitable, and this can't be fun for her. She still seems very alert though, but her manure, what little is coming out, is still green. Hubby said he thought it looked better, consistency-wise. I just think it's not as runny because she's not drinking enough any more, like she's giving up. I'm hoping that she'll be a bit better when I get home this evening. I don't have space to keep her with her friend in the laundry room, so I may have to put her back with the flock in hopes that they will motivate her to keep fighting and not give up. Then again, maybe it is time to hang up the gloves.

Post by **WLLady** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:05 pm

if she was treated a little while ago, no i wouldn't treat her again.....hm....enigma....
you might get her onto a bit of more solid food, no oil, but maybe some cooked rice or oatmeal, to try and make the stools less watery, or even just go back to pelletted feed, maybe with a tiny bit of water to soften it if she won't eat the pellets.
she's not really stinky is she? like coccidiosis (believe me....you KNOW that when you smell it....it smells like they died a week ago...it's an awful smell).....if not, maybe time to stop switching things up and see how she settles....i really don't know what else to suggest.

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:02 pm

No, she's not stinky at all. Except for her manure, but all chicken manure is smelly, especially when freshly deposited. Actually, it's not near as bad, because there is so little of it now. Her breath is fine, and I did smell her vent - definitely no yeast smell. Thanks for the oatmeal or cooked rice suggestion - I will try that. I don't have pelleted feed, just layer mash, and she has that free-choice in with her. I even put a little dish of peanut butter in with her, and was going to try some tahini as well. I went to the grocery store on Sunday to pick up some green or red seedless grapes, the kind she likes, but all they had were red globe grapes. She didn't like them, and I don't blame her. They are awful; so bland and tasteless.

Post by **WLLady** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:07 pm

How is she doing Jaye?

Jaye · Post by **Jaye** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:19 pm

She's lost a lot of weight, and isn't eating on her own, but is still drinking on her own. I've been hand feeding her pureed scrambled eggs and Heinz baby food. She "likes" chicken and sweet potato. I'll be making oatmeal this evening for her. Her stool is still awful, and I'll be cleaning her up again (I have been doing this every night) and tonight I'm going to use some olive oil in her vent because this morning I noticed the inside of her vent is pretty red/raw. She still has a strong will to live. This morning after I gave her electrolytes again, I asked hubby to hold her while I switched out the puppy pad in her cage, and he must have inadvertently put pressure on her crop, because all that good stuff I'd just finished giving her came right up again. Good news is I was worried that maybe she did have something going on in her crop after all, but what came out was exactly what had just gone in, nothing more. the night before last she did go up to roost with her friends, but yesterday morning she kind of stumbled down the ladder from the roost, I think because she had become weaker, so I've had her inside since.
I'm not giving up until she "tells me to".

SandyM · Post by **SandyM** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:29 pm

Apple Sauce? My one Silkie who is under a watchful eye loves apple sauce. Dunks her whole face and crest in. It's quite the site.