Necropsy Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
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Any advice in this section should not be taken to overrule advice by a certified licensed veterinarian. You should always consult a veterinarian for treatment or diagnoses of animal disease or injury. The information in this thread is simply the experience of board members and is not to be taken as a substitution for veterinary advice or treatment.
Any advice in this section should not be taken to overrule advice by a certified licensed veterinarian. You should always consult a veterinarian for treatment or diagnoses of animal disease or injury. The information in this thread is simply the experience of board members and is not to be taken as a substitution for veterinary advice or treatment.
- Reboot
- Fuzzy Dinosaur Stage
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- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm
- Location: Rideau Lakes Twp
- x 121
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
The investigator in me tries to take into account all possibilities including neighbours. Our chickens don't leave our 4 acres as I am on it all day and I watch them. I thought maybe someone nearby has had enough of our rooster at 5 am and tossed baits on the property (hey I can guarantee you people will do that). I made an effort to meet with our neighbours and discuss our homestead plans and we also gave out bread and eggs while doing so even having some over for dinner (yes chicken was served). We are fortunate to have great neighbours. Everyone I spoke with loved to see our birds out there and the rooster was actually kinda cool for some. We live in a old community that started up in the 1830s but is abandonned, fairly remote and quiet, it is zoned rural agriculture and we abide by the township bylaws in building our infrastructure with permits. We have two small dogs 18 to 20 lbs. If any poison was out there they'd have found it too but they are fine. I walk our property quite a bit and I've never seen any incidental death ie poisoning of wild birds, squirrels, raccoons etc. I think I screwed up the feed somehow. Its my prime layers that I have lost as my egg production has dropped by half. Its also of note my birds usually lay their eggs late morning ie 11 am. The one death I saw happening was early afternoon, I found one freshly dead in the morning and the last one yesterday I found stiff early afternoon. My observations of the liver seem consistent with Fatty Liver and what I read online suggests top producers succumb at this time of year during egg laying times. The stress of laying results in fatal hemorrhaging of the liver. I will figure this out, I will fix it and I'll try again. I am very glad I started experimenting with the Hovabator early as I have at least 10 pullets out there thriving and growing so we can recover from this. I can assume five of them will be hens. As I am walking around the property this morning (looking for any baits) I noticed my rooster follows me along with his hens. It just makes me sick to think I may have had something to do with this.
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Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
Badstart, I feel your pain. It is so sad that your hens are suddenly dying and I hope that you get some answers and that you will soon recover from this ordeal. Please let us all know if you ever do get to the bottom of it.
I think it would be a good idea to change your name. Bad Karma and all that!
{{{{Hugs}}}}
Linda
I think it would be a good idea to change your name. Bad Karma and all that!
{{{{Hugs}}}}
Linda
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- Killerbunny
- Poultry Guru - total zen level
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- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:04 pm
- Location: Brockville
- x 10155
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
I likes @Ontario Chick suggestion of Reboot!
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Beltsville Small White turkeys.
Mutt chickens for eggs
RIP Stephen the BSW Tom and my coffee companion.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave Splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
I agree change your name.
We all made mistakes when we first got our chickens, Unfortunately unless you have someone to mentor you it's going to happen. Don't worry it will get better.
We all made mistakes when we first got our chickens, Unfortunately unless you have someone to mentor you it's going to happen. Don't worry it will get better.
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- windwalkingwolf
- Poultry Guru - pullet level
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- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:31 pm
- Location: Frankville, Ontario
- x 4899
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
Well I'm sorry you're going through this
It's hard for me to see properly on my phone, but that is a VERY yellow hemhorrhagic liver, and a LOT of fat. Is the second picture clotted blood?
I would say Fatty Liver for sure if it was just one or if the deaths were spread out a little more. It would be very very strange for them all to die the same way within days of each other unless something else was going on. Unlikely but not impossible.
Good on you for attempting a necropsy. It's an unpleasant task in the best of circumstances. If another one passes, take two to pathology if the cost is the same (or cost is not an issue) or attempt a second necropsy and take pictures of it as well.
Compare your hens' combs, and keep an eye on any that are overly pale or yellowish. If fatty liver is endemic in your birds and not just a one-off, the hemhorrages will have them noticeably anemic.
If it IS just fatty liver disease, they can recover with diet modifications and time. Fatty liver is caused by an imbalance of and an excess of calories: too much fat, not enough carbohydrates to balance them out, or vice versa. People can get it too, just eat fast food every day for a month or two.
Easy fix is to reduce calories overall and simply feed them less. Harder fix would be to identify what they're getting too much of and reduce that. Organic layer diets tend to be purely vegetarian except for oyster shell...which is fine for production layers that are cycled out every 1 1/2 to 2 years, but not terribly good for liver and kidneys in the long term.
Either way, a good multivitamin and mineral supplement won't hurt, and now that they can find bugs, mice and frogs, things may sort themselves as the season goes on. Flhs only has one cure, and that's diet change plus time
It's hard for me to see properly on my phone, but that is a VERY yellow hemhorrhagic liver, and a LOT of fat. Is the second picture clotted blood?
I would say Fatty Liver for sure if it was just one or if the deaths were spread out a little more. It would be very very strange for them all to die the same way within days of each other unless something else was going on. Unlikely but not impossible.
Good on you for attempting a necropsy. It's an unpleasant task in the best of circumstances. If another one passes, take two to pathology if the cost is the same (or cost is not an issue) or attempt a second necropsy and take pictures of it as well.
Compare your hens' combs, and keep an eye on any that are overly pale or yellowish. If fatty liver is endemic in your birds and not just a one-off, the hemhorrages will have them noticeably anemic.
If it IS just fatty liver disease, they can recover with diet modifications and time. Fatty liver is caused by an imbalance of and an excess of calories: too much fat, not enough carbohydrates to balance them out, or vice versa. People can get it too, just eat fast food every day for a month or two.
Easy fix is to reduce calories overall and simply feed them less. Harder fix would be to identify what they're getting too much of and reduce that. Organic layer diets tend to be purely vegetarian except for oyster shell...which is fine for production layers that are cycled out every 1 1/2 to 2 years, but not terribly good for liver and kidneys in the long term.
Either way, a good multivitamin and mineral supplement won't hurt, and now that they can find bugs, mice and frogs, things may sort themselves as the season goes on. Flhs only has one cure, and that's diet change plus time
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- Reboot
- Fuzzy Dinosaur Stage
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm
- Location: Rideau Lakes Twp
- x 121
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
I have images from the first two necropsies which I'll include with this intact bird that I'm taking to the lab tomorrow. Thank you for your thoughts!windwalkingwolf wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:16 pmIf another one passes, take two to pathology if the cost is the same (or cost is not an issue) or attempt a second necropsy and take pictures of it as well.
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- Reboot
- Fuzzy Dinosaur Stage
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm
- Location: Rideau Lakes Twp
- x 121
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
Geese I think I tried to ask for a name change I just don't remember who I asked or by what means. Consensus is Reboot so if the powers that be have the time I'll take the name I'm given by the group. Bird body count is zero today thank goodness. I'll definitely update the results of the exam when I get them. My big relief is 10 eggs from 12 birds today so I should have a full load of eggs when the Brinsea gets here.
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- WLLady
- Stringy Old Soup Pot Hen of a Moderator
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- Location: Rural near West Lorne and Glencoe
- x 8527
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
@Badstart i'll talk with @poultry_admin and see if he can get you sorted out with a new username.....I think it's straightforward, but i'm 100% sure if i attempt it i'll likely mess it up and you won't be able to log in at all!!!! LOL.
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Pet quality wheaten/blue wheaten ameraucanas, welsummers, barred rocks, light brown leghorns; Projects on the go: rhodebars, welbars
- Reboot
- Fuzzy Dinosaur Stage
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm
- Location: Rideau Lakes Twp
- x 121
Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
As promised I dropped the bird off at the pathology lab. Our large animal vet will apparently call us with the results. Thankfully no birds lost as of Sunday. Its just weird but at least eggs are still coming so we'll have something for incubating tomorrow.
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Re: Fatty Liver Disease? (graphic post mortem images warning)
I'm sorry you are going through this with your birds. Unexplained deaths can be very perplexing.
When we started our small farm 3 yrs. ago, our introduction to poultry was with our hens getting bumblefoot. Having learned more about that over the years, I'm sure it was from infected injuries because of old nails and broken glass in the soil where their enclosure is. I have since gone through the run with a magnet broom quite regularly.
When we started our small farm 3 yrs. ago, our introduction to poultry was with our hens getting bumblefoot. Having learned more about that over the years, I'm sure it was from infected injuries because of old nails and broken glass in the soil where their enclosure is. I have since gone through the run with a magnet broom quite regularly.
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