Marek's Vaccine, Bad idea?

windwalkingwolf · Post by **windwalkingwolf** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:21 am

What many people have reported anecdotally, and what many people on here have suspected, now has some research to back it up.

Excerpt: "... group started their investigation by exposing vaccinated and unvaccinated Rhode Island Red chickens to one of five Marek’s disease strains that ranged from hot to cold. The hottest strains killed every unvaccinated bird within 10 days, and the team noticed that barely any virus was shed from the feathers of the chickens during that time. (The virus spreads via contaminated dust in chicken coops). In contrast, vaccination extended the lifespan of birds exposed to the hottest strains, with 80 percent living longer than two months. But the vaccinated chickens were transmitting the virus, shedding 10,000 times more virus than an unvaccinated bird.

“Previously, a hot strain was so nasty, it wiped itself out. Now, you keep its host alive with a vaccine, then it can transmit and spread in the world,” Read said. “So it’s got an evolutionary future, which it didn’t have before.” "

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tth ... dangerous/

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:59 am

I was just here to post this. Very interesting.

Satellite · Post by **Satellite** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:34 pm

Very very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:26 am

Just an observation.
Not much commenting or conversation on a topic that definitely would have very strong opposing or similar opinions.
Very interesting.
This information is fascinating. Although for some I assume the basis of it isn't a shocker especially for someone like myself who isn't pro-vaccine the

out of everything and everyone.
True, valid, uninfluenced science is very hard to come by.

Post by **Killerbunny** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:46 am

I have a rule for my birds, I only vaccinate for ILT. I would never vaccinate for Marek's.

Ontario Chick · Post by **Ontario Chick** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:31 am

Several years ago, when I was still sitting on the fence as far as vaccinating birds goes, I read an opinion piece by a group of vets on the subject.
When I finished it, I came to a conclusion that since the people who had the education and experience to make a very good educated decision, couldn't agree on almost anything, who was I to think I could do better, so stuck with the "first do no harm" and for me it meant no vaccinations.
That said, I don't bring in new birds, and that played a large role in my decision making process.
Also we all tend to look for information that support our own opinions, and less medication, has always been my philosophy for both animals and people.

Maximus wrote:QR_BBPOST Not much commenting or conversation on a topic that definitely would have very strong opposing or similar opinions.
Very interesting.

I think that perhaps shows more maturity in the group? Very refreshing not to get people hot and bothered by difference of opinion.:)

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:52 pm

For me not getting hot and bothered by a difference of opinion shows maturity. I personally have learned so much from 'difference of opinions' and will continue to always follow that path. Who I am today is not who I was 20 years ago, mostly because I explore and continue to explore difference of opinions and firmly believe one can be intellectually wealthy with a well rounded understanding of all aspects that circle an opinion.

Very few things I'll shut down without an appreciation for anothers position on a 'topic'. I am strongly opinionated on many topics but in no way does that make my way better or more correct than someone who opposes me.

I firmly believe the incredible far ranging diversity in this group is because of the many many differences with our members and THAT is what makes it so great and resourceful.

My 2 cents and I don't round down. :)

windwalkingwolf · Post by **windwalkingwolf** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:44 pm

I'm not anti-vaccination at ALL, with one or two exceptions, and Marek's has always been one of them. Deliberately infecting an animal with a deadly herpes virus that they could forever pass on to other birds, and then having to always vaccinate everything bought or hatched, didn't make any logical sense to me. Thankfully I've never lost a beloved pet (or any bird) to it. If I DID, I might rethink my position but I doubt it. The way I see it is, if some of my birds were to contract Marek's and die or be culled, the survivors would be stronger for it. The virus is everywhere, no getting away from it except natural or bred-in resistance, and I'd rather have my birds exposed naturally to small amounts they can fight off (or not) than deliberately making them horribly infectious and then forever having to vaccinate all new birds. If you're an intensive operation like an egg farm, meat farm or breeder barn, it makes sense to vaccinate, because birds are generally kept in close quarters in very unnatural conditions...so if one catches it, they all will and economic losses would be huge. But for most backyard flock keepers I think not only does vaccination not make much bigger-picture sense, but has potential to be catastrophic. What if Cardinals or Cedar Waxwings disappeared because our typhoid Mary birds shat their herpes all over them lol? Now, if you're a keeper making egg money and buying ready-to-lay hens every year or two, those birds are vaccinated and it would just be dumb not to do the rest of your birds if you also have breeders or even expensive eye candy. A little bit of stress and the vaccinated birds are shedding massive amounts of virus, and they do it for years rather than days because it doesn't make them sick. They're running around doing healthy bird things and flapping dander all over the place.
It all comes down to personal decision and management practices, whether or not vaccination makes sense for your flock, but I think there aren't enough people making the decision fully informed.

Happy · Post by **Happy** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:03 pm

The first time I had even heard about Marek's was the first time I had a sick chicken and started googling. I was terrified about the prospect that I hadn't spent pennies more to have my girls vaccinated. In the end it wasn't Marek's...but that experience caused me to read on it and (like OC mentioned) I found that there was a lot of different opinions from the professionals that we look to for advice. I've read enough at this point to be on the side that not vaccinating was the right way to start and continue for me. My chickens are pets...so it would be easy to try to protect them from everything possible. But for the greater good I don't believe that is the right choice. It does however scare the bejesus out of me that my neighbor could have vaccinated birds shedding the virus.