Poultry Talk Ontario (pto.ca)

A lady up the road from me is having some horrible issues with her young brood. History: A couple of times late in the summer, she hatched a bunch of different birds all at the same time, including chicks, poults, keets, peachicks and ducks. Hatch rate on the peachicks was very low, but everything else seemed normal. The first batch hatched are all seemingly healthy and doing well. The second batch, not so much. At about 4 weeks old, she moved them from brooder in with the older batch, and all was well for about a week. Then the one young pea chick got a bit of a runny nose and snicking, but not enough to alarm, and she didn't separate it thinking they were all exposed anyway if it was contagious (OOPS). Another week went by, peachick no better but no worse, and all of a sudden the young batch of turkeys all get swollen sinuses under eye, POOF!, runny noses and snicking, then sneezing, then hoarseness. She's all-natural organic, and starts treating the whole lot with various remedies to seemingly little avail. A month goes by. Symptoms are all still there...poults' sinuses are now so swollen that two can hardly see, noses all running clear mucus, sneezing, constant snicking now, hoarseness. Everyone is still eating and drinking well though, still active. No symptoms in older group at all, or in ducklings, keets or chicks, just youngest peafowl and turkeys. One poult suddenly starts losing weight and just sitting there, and on my advice, she gently tries to express some mucus out it's nostrils to give it some relief...which works, but also large chunks of white pus come up out of it's eyes. Uh oh. It dies two days later, and she opens up the swellings to find the sinus cavity under and around it's eyeball packed full of loose (not adhering to any tissues seemingly) cheesy white pus. Another has since died, same thing, sudden weight loss and listlessness, same pus-filled sinuses. Through all this, appetite and has been normal except right before the end when they just suddenly stop eating. She tried Vet RX which seemed to give some very temporary relief each time it was given by mouth, and they have been on some various herbs and compounds including oils of thyme, oregano, garlic and various others she's adding to their oatmeal. Three young poults and the peachick left, the peachick is still the same. One of the turkeys must now be hand-fed and watered because his eye swelling is so huge he cannot open them, and the other two poults are unchanged...but judging from the two that died, that could change very suddenly. She really wants to save these guys and is ready for the big guns but funds are severely limited and will put them down before she spends money on a vet or $60 on a bottle of Tylan, which are the only real options I could think of. I'm out of ideas, and earlier today she texts me and says one of the young turkeys is now so hoarse no sound is coming out. I say Buckley's?? Like I said, I'm out of ideas, I have no idea what it is she's actually dealing with, and my thoughts are that they are all going to die, as it has been about two months and they're only getting worse, however slowly. She droppers Buckley's down their throats and reports back an hour afterwards that they all have their voices back to some degree and are sneezing much less!!! Holy crap, well, at least I didn't kill them though I'm not sure I'm doing them any favours. Eye swelling the same though, as there's thick cheese in there with no way to get it out. I really don't want to suggest treatments without knowing what she's dealing with. My best guess is Mycoplasma, but if it was something pheasant specific, wouldn't the guinea keet get it as well? And why wouldn't the older group catch it? There is apparently no unusual smell, either in mucus or feces. Mucus remains clear and pus bright white. I can offer her some injectible Proc Penicillin LA, but if it's Myco it won't touch it, and may even hurt the turkeys no matter what's causing the infection. I can't think it's fungal, since it doesn't appear to be infecting their lungs, and plus the newer group was kept in exactly the same conditions as the older group, the only difference being The older group had the coop to themselves until the sickies were added. But I really don't know. Does anyone have any insights? Since the older group haven't caught anything, could it maybe be some weird presentation of coccidiosis? I can sort of understand why she wants to save the peachick, but honestly were it me, the poults at least would have been culled long ago--they look awful, and whatever it is, it's pretty clear it's not going to just go away. Here is a pic of the worst poult, taken earlier today...when I saw the brown crust, I thought Coryza, but apparently it's mostly food she missed when wiping him off after a messy feeding (obviously, he's blind at the moment)--any pressure on his eyes hurts him, and anyways, the lack of smell and the chickens not getting it, doesn't fit with Coryza, nor does how long it's been lingering...unless there's something I'm missing. I'm wondering if it would help if she could cut a small opening in the swellings and flush the pus out, but again, without knowing what's causing it to be there in the first place and treating for it, it will just come back Some additional information, they do not appear to be heat-seeking, even when they start to go down. No huddling together or staying under the lamp at all. No weakness or wobbliness, and except when eyes are swelled fully shut or in the two that went down suddenly, they are running and jumping around as young turkeys and peachick tend to do.

OK so she should send them to Guelph under the new programme. Can't find the sticky with info. IMO this is a serious problem that needs to be figured out and fast. Personally I'd be staying clear of her property but I know you know what you're doing. It's all very well being organic but it's no good if your birds are dropping like this. This is more than the odd bird.
http://www.poultrytalkontario.net/forum ... lph#p18013
There you go.

Please disinfect yourself thoroughly after visiting WWW! my best guess is fungal, in which case i would probably get started 1) calling a vet, 2) sending any of the expired chickens to the guelph program, but if funds are severely limited get them on a cocktail of an antifungal, broad spectrum antibiotic mix and probably amprol to, and supplement with vitamin B and superbooster. Please note I am not a vet, but this is what i would start doing while i had a call into my vet to come and take cultures.

i would suggest penicillin and streptomycin AND neomycin/tetracycline, along with amprol and anything anti-fungal. since you don't know what it is-the cheesy stuff has got to be bacterial or fungal combined with a huge white blood cell influx of an immune response. she is going to need to hit it hard too, and expect losses. and expect the birds to be much weaker and more susceptible to infections again in the future. My guess is that they were probably all on the same feed, and the peafowl picked something up from wherever -mouse? wildbird? floor? bedding? whatever, and got infected and then from there that birds droppings or nasal secretions passed it around. the timing would be right....

she really needs to get a vet in to do a culture if she wants targetted intervention. superbooster at double strength will give the one set of antibiotics (penn/strep i think) and the vitamins, and the other (tetracycline) can be bought at a place like tsc as well, it goes in the water along with amprolium. i would make it up double strength for the first few days-so 4 tsp of amprol (o.o48% instead of 0.024%) plus 2 tsp each of the superbooster and antibiotics in the SAME 4 liters of water, made up fresh daily for ALL birds-even her older ones that seem unaffected. She will probably need to give the antifungal (there was one recommended a while ago in another thread) orally. She also needs to organize her work so the LAST birds she sees every time she is out are the sick ones, and then be liberal with the virkon or bleach on ALL her equipment, her shoes, change clothes etc. that way hopefully she will not infect the not sick birds carrying it on her.

and honestly, if they do not show ANY improvement in 10 days of treatment, get rid of them and disinfect the premises...

organic and holistic have their place, but i think she is way past that now and needs some science based anti-creepycrawling medicine.
please be ultra careful about potentially bringing it back to your place!!!!!

again, i am NOT a vet.....but like i said, i would be calling one in, and getting started with this in the meantime and getting the vet to take cultures so that it could be treated in a targetted manner.

Common sense says to quit playing games (ducking around) and get it dealt with in a profesional way. This could be the start of a new plague. That's the last thing we need in the hobby. Even worse if some die then a few recover and get sold and spread it around. Then its a runaway train.

Oh believe me, I am not visiting her! We've actually never met face to face, a friend I sold eggs to last year referred her to me for an issue she was having last year--bald red butts.
I've got a little super booster I can drop in her mailbox (and then burn my truck lol) I'll suggest Canesten, and then try to convince her to try and find a vet that will swab a chicken :/ My regular vet a few years ago did one for me, only cost I think it was $75 at the time including fee to Guelph, but he has since moved.
An update on the Buckley's'treatment', relief from constant sneezing and hoarseness lasted about 6 hours and nobody died LOL

Update: Yes they are all on the same feed, TSC stuff. I'm wondering if she didn't get a bad batch, or if possibly the ducklings caused food or bedding to spoil. I know how wet and messy the little buggers are. They were on shavings in the brooder but straw ever since moving to grow out coop. Ducks are in their own. Grow out coop is 10'x'10 with 25 young of various ages in it. That seems crowded to me? Sick turkeys and peacock are back in her house though since one has to be hand fed. So she's decided to go all-in, treat for everything and try and find a vet. Her husband was planning a trip home to Hawaii for Xmas. He doesn't know it yet, but that may be on hold... =-O

I hope the vet can come up with a more definitive answer for her!! And a treatment.

After doing some digging, we have a couple leads on vets. There is a rumour that Almonte Veterinary services (it was on facebook, so a rumour is all it is) is willing to see poultry, so she has a call in to them and is waiting to hear back. Almonte is only about an hour away, so that is her best bet. Also, apparently Alta Vista animal hospital in Ottawa has been known to occasionally treat exotic birds, so perhaps they would be willing to give a go as well. It's about an hour and a half or so away, but two leads are better than one, and one is better than none. If either is willing to see/treat a baby turkey, or even just swab and send it off, I will report back when I hear.
As for an update on the little ones, she has started them on double strength superbooster. Today peachick is the same, still sneezing but no sign of swelling. Turkeys swelling seems larger. The one with his eyes swelled completely shut is still blind, but has found the food and water placement for himself so no longer has to be hand-fed. Appetite is still good in all three...the fact that the swelling seems bigger is alarming, I already thought it looked like they were going to explode, it gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking about it. Maybe an inflammatory reaction to dead/dying bacteria? or maybe fungus taking over now that bacteria are dying? Neither of us managed to make it to town today to get the crotchie crawlie medicine,, ,and neither of us have ever had a yeast infection so nothing on hand I guess she's going in the morning as soon as drug stores are open, and hopefully the oral antifungals can be bought without a prescription, I have no idea. If not, I guess it will be suppositories.

Don't know if this information will help, but I used oral dosing of an antifungal – Flucomazole, AKA Diflucan UN (Pfizer) or CanesOral (Bayer) for one of my hens that had vent gleet.
Walmart carries both, at least at the store I shopped at, and has the lowest price. And they are both OTC.
For poultry the dosage is 15 mg per Kg for 7 days.
My hen is 2.95 Kg, so she got about 45 mg per day sprinkled on bits of scrambled egg. Each capsule contains 150g, and there is one capsule in a package. So, yes, it's pricey. i wonder if it would be cheaper to get a prescription from the vet?

Hmm, I'm thinking that I know it would be hard on this person but for the sake of every other poultry keeper in the area, this flock should be put down. She could disinfect and start over in the spring with healthy stock. I would never ever want a bird that came from this farm from this day forward. Not trying to be mean but I think most people understand my point.