Aggression vs. fertility in roosters

[Robbie]

I'm having a discussion on another forum where some people are saying that aggressive roosters are more fertile, and if you select for nice roosters in a few generations fertility will suffer. Me personally I'm finding that the eggs were fertilized, and both roosters were mellow. I was hoping someone with experience breeding for generations could comment on this. If it's true does having a larger rooster/hen ratio fix that?

I dug around a bit but was unable to find any reliable indicators of fertility in the literature. Fertility is negatively correlated to body weight and breast size but I couldn't find anything that showed aggressive behaviour translated into better egg fertility. So in theory an Ancona rooster (Known for excellent fertility) will be more fertile than a Cornish. But, does it follow that a mean aggressive Ancona is more fertile than a nice mellow Ancona rooster?

Has anybody had an aggressive rooster that was infertile or had poor fertility? I still think a nasty rooster is an abomination, not in my flock you don't, so I still plan to breed for mellow (but not cowardice). But if it's true then I'll have to make some changes in how I breed. Your thoughts?

[TomK]

Another forum??????...ok,.we gotta talk..lol....but seriously, i have a lot of questions regarding breeding..woukd enjoy a chat on that sometime, Robbie

[Killerbunny]

Back in the 40's it was thought that daughters of aggressive roosters laid better (production reds were being used ) The upshot of this ws that a number of red lines have nasty aggressive roosters and hens too. This was debunked but some still hang on to the belief. I wonder if this is part of that myth. BTW my 2 aggressive roosters scared the girls so much they quit laying and wouldn't let them mate!

[Robbie]

I hate it too when a rooster beats up on a hen. No way can I see that ever being a good thing.

[Robbie]

Another forum??????...ok,.we gotta talk..lol....but seriously, i have a lot of questions regarding breeding..woukd enjoy a chat on that sometime, Robbie

LOL Tom I'm on ALL the forums!!! I've even been tempted to join the Dutch and German ones even though I'd have to use google translate all the time. I'm very new to breeding so why not post all your questions here? Lots of expert help! And I can add my 2cents, I might have a few things to add that I've learned from others.

[Cuttlefish]

Robbie is it possible this is about flock mating? I can see how a flock with a few roosters all living together would lead to the head roo (probably the most aggressive one!) fathering the most offspring....

[TomK]

Robbie...yeah, you're right of course...i have zero experience trying to hatch eggs...know when i have a fertile one...nuthin...its ground zero launch pad for me...but i'm quite keen...

[windwalkingwolf]

I'm wondering if some people didn't know the difference between mating behaviour and aggression...for instance, an inexperienced randy cockerel may seem aggressive when dragging other birds around by neck and head feathers, but that's because he has an idea what he wants but no idea how to get it . I have a rooster that bites me if he sees skin. But he's not being vicious, he thinks I'm a strange bald hen lol, and if i dont pry him off my foot or arm, I'll have a slimy spot to clean up. He's very randy, can service LOADS of hens, and his daughters are excellent layers...but not an aggressive bone in his body. If there's a fight, Joe is running in the other direction, and he never starts one.

[ross]

Just like top bull/buck in the herd .

[Robbie]

Robbie is it possible this is about flock mating? I can see how a flock with a few roosters all living together would lead to the head roo (probably the most aggressive one!) fathering the most offspring....

The gist of the conversation was, I mentioned that I'd culled a rooster for being aggressive (to me). Someone said that if I selected mellow roosters I'd start to see fertility problems in future generations, because the aggressive roosters (according to that person) were more fertile. Other people said that human aggression has nothing to do with fertility, it's a character flaw (and I agree). We weren't talking about rooster to rooster aggression, we were specifically talking about roosters who attack humans. The feeling was, the human aggressive rooster has more testosterone, ergo was more fertile. But I'm not certain that is true, and I have found no research to back it up. The fellow that agreed with me raises the Asian breeds, which are extremely aggressive towards other roosters (and hens to each other) but are very tame around humans.

So I'm trying to find out if I have a rooster that is non- aggressive to humans, and non aggressive to other roosters, does this mean he also has low fertility? Maybe picking out the nice guys will be bad in the long run?